Management within games industry

[Furyo]

I have so many of them too I could write a book. But that's still an over-generalization to classify all studios that way. I would probably agree with the statement that it is the majority of the studios, but some teams manage to stay away.

The problem lies in locating these teams, getting on board, moving to the end of the world and staying there. It's not for the faint hearted.

[Steppenwolf]

It's not extreme, it's reality. I quit my job almost 2 years ago partly because of this. And quite frankly I'm scared to consider another company just because of these politics (which is why after 2 years I'm still unemployed). Games are being made by a small group of people who have to work twice or even triple as hard to get half of what they imagined ingame because of the friction caused by other people slowing down the development (not just management). You end up with a lot of overtime which you don't get paid for and burned out to the bone (this is what you get for caring about the stuff you actually work on).

It really saddens me to read that a talented guy like you is discouraged by his experiences. I can completely understand tho. I would utterly HATE to live and work under such circumstances. But you know its not everywhere like that. I lived and worked only like 1 km away from you and my positive experiences far outweight the negative ones, tho to be frank Grin had some of its own shenanigans during the last half year or so.

I hope you find work somewhere where you make better experiences, maybe through people you know and thrust.

[Hourences]

I have so many of them too I could write a book. But that's still an over-generalization to classify all studios that way. I would probably agree with the statement that it is the majority of the studios, but some teams manage to stay away.

The problem lies in locating these teams, getting on board, moving to the end of the world and staying there. It's not for the faint hearted.

Of course not all studios are like that, some are really good. At least 50% of the studios out there do however have some serious issues. So yeah, looking for a job? You got 50% chance of ending up in the wrong place... And hey, even if it is a good place, you still have another ~50% chance they go bankrupt within a year or two

The trick is in to look at it as a job, and try not to care too much about what you do, but not too little either. Otherwise it will get to you in no time and you are out. Easier said than done though...

[Minos]

It's 100% due to bad managers and bad management that I'm having to looking for a new job now.

[alecmoody]

I totally agree about how frustrating managers who aren't developers can be.

Much of engineering work is so technical that it is completely impossible for a non-engineer/physicist to have any clue whatsoever what is going on or what is involved. Seemingly small changes or details can have enormous repercussions (or none whatsoever!), and unless you understand the problem and process, its easy to leave out one of these details or assume a small change is no big deal. I'd imagine it's the same way with game production... Management decides to make a change, which they think is no big deal, but in reality they basically just told you to start ALL over again. Its frustrating, and the second iteration is always of inferior quality to the first. The passion and interest is gone, you just want to get it done.

Ugh, I'm getting that right now with a client for one of my freelance gigs. He doesn't really understand the process of building a model and keeps asking for changes upon changes upon changes. Sometimes those changes affect another part of the model, then I end up having to changed that, or he asks for a change, then changes his mind, etc. So frustrating. Never worked with someone as picky or difficult as that =0.

I think this just comes with freelancing and you have to accept it as part of the job. If you are so high profile that you can drop a client and always have another one lined up then that's great but not the position most of us are in. My experience is that often people request changes without thinking about how much time it will take because there usually isn't a personal relationship at stake and they don't have to look you in the face when they take a bunch more of your time without added compensation. Anyway, get your contracts written with some sort of reasonable number of revisions section and ideally something that says no unreasonable changes to the design after a certain point.

[dux]

I was really lucky with my freelancing gig for natural selection 2. I'm not sure if I could ever work in a high profile "suit based" game studio. Gooseman contacted me (Mr. Counter-Strike!) but things changed so he refereed me to flayra to work on NS2. And my Art producer, and infact everyone is really cool to talk with and know what they are doing for the most part. This is how I want to work indefinitely, I love making games but I don't want to move from where I live. So if this ends I'm likely going to go back to doing this as a hobby unless a super sweet deal arrives. All the studios I went to interview at were not particularly amazing towards me and put me off wanting to relocate for my first ever game dev gig. Not to mention the stories I had already heard of what game studios were like so I was feeling a bit downtrodden after the whole experience. Yay freelance! Have I gone offtopic a bit?

[Sentura]

I totally agree about how frustrating managers who aren't developers can be.

Much of engineering work is so technical that it is completely impossible for a non-engineer/physicist to have any clue whatsoever what is going on or what is involved. Seemingly small changes or details can have enormous repercussions (or none whatsoever!), and unless you understand the problem and process, its easy to leave out one of these details or assume a small change is no big deal. I'd imagine it's the same way with game production... Management decides to make a change, which they think is no big deal, but in reality they basically just told you to start ALL over again. Its frustrating, and the second iteration is always of inferior quality to the first. The passion and interest is gone, you just want to get it done.

Ugh, I'm getting that right now with a client for one of my freelance gigs. He doesn't really understand the process of building a model and keeps asking for changes upon changes upon changes. Sometimes those changes affect another part of the model, then I end up having to changed that, or he asks for a change, then changes his mind, etc. So frustrating. Never worked with someone as picky or difficult as that =0.

I think this just comes with freelancing and you have to accept it as part of the job. If you are so high profile that you can drop a client and always have another one lined up then that's great but not the position most of us are in. My experience is that often people request changes without thinking about how much time it will take because there usually isn't a personal relationship at stake and they don't have to look you in the face when they take a bunch more of your time without added compensation. Anyway, get your contracts written with some sort of reasonable number of revisions section and ideally something that says no unreasonable changes to the design after a certain point.

it's a good point with the revision numbers and no-further-changes point; i think those are perhaps the most important point for any freelance (apart from the payment). also i was not saying that you should ditch each and every client that wants changes done, but there is a point where the money does not become worth the effort; and it's at that point you should put your foot down. i understand that some clients can even realize this themselves.

[AlexM]

Much of engineering work is so technical that it is completely impossible for a non-engineer/physicist to have any clue whatsoever what is going on or what is involved. Seemingly small changes or details can have enormous repercussions (or none whatsoever!), and unless you understand the problem and process, its easy to leave out one of these details or assume a small change is no big deal. I'd imagine it's the same way with game production... Management decides to make a change, which they think is no big deal, but in reality they basically just told you to start ALL over again. Its frustrating, and the second iteration is always of inferior quality to the first. The passion and interest is gone, you just want to get it done.

Ugh, I'm getting that right now with a client for one of my freelance gigs. He doesn't really understand the process of building a model and keeps asking for changes upon changes upon changes. Sometimes those changes affect another part of the model, then I end up having to changed that, or he asks for a change, then changes his mind, etc. So frustrating. Never worked with someone as picky or difficult as that =0.

lol I had a boss like that for 2 years. My solution was to go to school for a programming degree. I had way to many clients like that.

I think severely curbing my freelance art work (and working at places with people above you like that) has had a very positive effect on my soul and sanity.

[Defrag]

Programming is arguably even worse in thatrespect. All you can do is explain to your boss/client that changes take time and money. You can have a mix of quality, speed and cheapness, but not all three things at the same time. Every time someone changes the plan/requirements, they need to understand the ramifications in terms of the amount of hours required to make those changes.

[AlexM]

I figured as much

Job security would be another reason I switched.

[Defrag]

That's life, I guess :F