Jante Law - Scandinavian Communities

[Duff-e]

I was doing some random wikipedia browsing and came across this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jante_Law

I know a lot of you are from Scandinavia and was curious how true it is. It says the original novel was written in 1933 so I'm guessing some things have changed? I don't think it's necessary a bad or good thing I just find it interesting. If it is true do you think it's a feature or a flaw?

[Skjalg]

Think of it like this, we like people to be humble =)

I think that is what "janteloven" boils down to. You should never ever parade around while thinking you're the shit because everyone has flaws

[dux]

Why did the borg come to mind when reading that

[Duff-e]

So what happens if someone does something good or accomplishes something? Is the celebrated person expected to be super humble? I'm not saying that's not a good trait to have but I mean I get the feeling celebrities in Scandinavia have to metaphorically throw out their fan mail

I'm still curious though is this attitude present today or is it more a relic of your parents generation.

[Pampers]

its not different than other countries, its just something thats gets brought up now and then

[dux]

So if Mr. Johansen cures cancer he'd be like "Oh it was nothing. I need to get back to work now, leave me alone!".

[Pampers]

it's not that you moderate yourself all the time, it's that if you get cocky, other ppl make sure you're not getting too cocky

[insta]

So what happens if someone does something good or accomplishes something? Is the celebrated person expected to be super humble? I'm not saying that's not a good trait to have but I mean I get the feeling celebrities in Scandinavia have to metaphorically throw out their fan mail

I'm still curious though is this attitude present today or is it more a relic of your parents generation.

The successfull person will buy a Porsche and start drinking champagne. The people around him will whisper "jeez, what a showoff" when that person is not in the room/within hearing range (in addition to the jante law, non-confrontational-ism is also big in scandinavia )

[Steppenwolf]

I know from my time in Sweden that there is a thing called "lagom". It's in a way an approach to life similar to eastern/buddhist philosophy where moderation is seen as the optimal case. This of course affects stuff like work and career too for many.

[Duff-e]

Do the younger generations like that aspect of their culture or are they actively trying to change it? I actually think the lagom idea sounds pretty good. Makes me wonder what Swedish people think of Ingvar Kamprad.

(again, not judging, hope it doesn't seem that way)

[Skjalg]

Its not a big thing, its more like something that gets brought up when someone really is a showoff when that person really hasnt accomplished anything really astonishing.

I think it only applies to day to day stuff. So if you figure out a cure to cancer, then you're safe....

[Sentura]

i think it's very widespread in the smaller communities outside of the big cities, and even in some parts of the big cities. the closest association i can think of is the old southern/western towns of the US, particularly with the sentence, "we don't take kindly to the likes of you around here" wrapped around them. it's also not only just saying you're better than someone else, it's also (and i've noticed this a lot) if you speak up about issues or otherwise break a taboo silence. people don't want you to get to where they can't get to, and they don't generally favor change.

i don't think you as a young person can change it, even if you want to. it's your culture, it's the way you were brought up. you risk alienating/getting ostracized from your family, your friends and pretty much any relation you might have with people if you choose to be different.

since it seems very much to be in the mentality of people as well as in the culture, i think most people don't notice it (either consciously or subconsciously). i was raised differently; i reckon that's the reason i've noticed so much of it.

in addition to the jante law, non-confrontational-ism is also big in scandinavia

i agree, and i really can't stand this part of the culture.

[Duff-e]

So I take it that young people acknowledge that this social atmosphere exists whereas older people see it as more of a fact of life? I guess what I'm asking is are the younger people actively trying to modify this aspect of Scandinavian culture or are they comfortable with the kind of community it creates? The only thing I can compare it to in the US is conservativism, the way my father or grandfather might go off on a "back in my day" rant.

What country do you live in sentura? Why were you raised differently? Why weren't your parents ostracized for teaching different values? Do many of your peers feel the same way? Does "getting somewhere where people can't get to you" mean anything besides a disparity in wealth?

[Sentura]

So I take it that young people acknowledge that this social atmosphere exists whereas older people see it as more of a fact of life? I guess what I'm asking is are the younger people actively trying to modify this aspect of Scandinavian culture or are they comfortable with the kind of community it creates? The only thing I can compare it to in the US is conservativism, the way my father or grandfather might go off on a "back in my day" rant.

What country do you live in sentura? Why were you raised differently? Why weren't your parents ostracized for teaching different values? Do many of your peers feel the same way? Does "getting somewhere where people can't get to you" mean anything besides a disparity in wealth?

i live in denmark. i was born here, but i was brought up with more polish than danish culture (due to my parents). they were ostracized by most people for just being foreigners or being too vocal. they told me stories of when they got here, how hard it was and all that yadda, which i personally regard as half truths with at least a layer of exaggeration. when i was younger i often overheard examples such as people assuming my mother to be a cleaning lady because of her accent (when really she's a psychologist).

i won't speak for my peers because honestly, i don't know what they think of this. the people i know that are here abroad mostly just hang around in their own group rather than hang with particularly danish people. even those who've been here for a few years seem only interested in either people from their own country or people who aren't from denmark. i might take the question up and see what they say, i always love a bit of anthropology.

what i meant by "getting somewhere" was anything that could be a cause for envy - including wealth and status. when i last spoke to my parents (they live in a provincial town outside of Copenhagen), they were rebuilding their house. even then, they told me that they wanted the repairs on the front of the house (facing the road) and roof done first, while the neighbors were still around to witness it, while the back of the house and interior would be done while the neighbors were on vacation. the implication here was that the neighbors wouldn't notice that the rebuilding effort was much greater than they might initially have thought, for them not to think that my parents are as wealthy as they are.

[Henrik Alfredsson]

The Jante Law is both good and bad, in my opinion. You could say that the older generation (like my grandparents), act according to it more often than the younger ones do, but it's still there. The younger generation are more individualistic than the one previously, but are generally still rather humble about their successes (I'd like to think).

In the group of friends I consider to be my main posse, there are both rather poor (like me, unemployed ) and proper rich. The difference might be that they have an apartment downtown, or take the boat out sometimes. But that doesn't bother me in the least, that's their life and I have mine. We are still very good friends and they both look and speak the same way I do so you couldnt spot the rich kids from the poor at a glance. Maybe I live in the sweet-spot, but its a way of life I like. Of course, there are those who really pimp their self out to show their wealth, but I reckon the "gap" is narrower than in for example USA (has much to do with the political system as well, we're almost commies compared to you )

The kind of music is more important for a kid these days than the money you make or the success you have in life...

The bad thing about the Jante law is that building a successful company could be frown upon by certain people, and I think that is very sad. Sweden need new businesses to function and we got the knowledge to do some rather amazing things, just get to it already!