you all realize right?

[Thrik]

It's no mindfuck for me Duffy, and I'm sure plenty of other people around here map with gameplay in mind above anything else. I think this post is going to really help out newer mappers though, especially those that seem to be designing the layout of their maps as they go along, rather than establishing it from the outset.

Sure, this can work, but it's risky. It's far more reliable to get a good plan of exactly how your map will play, and then build upon those blue prints. Not only does this prepare you for the industry where you'll undoubtly be given specific themes and such to keep to, but will also result in a lot more fun maps coming from this community, as well as helping you to keep focused on the map since you have a solid plan and won't just end up scrapping it. More finished and fun maps equals more recognition for mapcore, and that's always good.

It's like, I'll look in the level design forums, and hardly any of the WIP pics seem to show any kind of consideration towards how the map will play whatsoever. It's all about looking good and then thinking about where key points and such will go afterwards. If I took a WIP shot from some guy working on a big map for example and he'd only finished a small part of it before taking screenshots, then drew an arrow somewhere into the background and said "Okay, what's going to go there?", he probably wouldn't have a clue.

[Marcos]

I dont see how a big open feild with some big boxes for cover can be so much fun..

[Fletch]

i dont understand why this is such a mindfuck for most of you....you spend hours and hours on making a map and then when you make it and no one cares to play it all the time is wasted. when doing multiplayer maps, fun comes first (IE every map for counterstrike thats popular). for single player, who gives a shit, go wild, show us that post middle age architecture that you find so amazing.....but no one wants that garbage to slow down their FPS when all they care about is fragging the guy in front of them.

Again, Duffy speaks the truth... in his own unique way. People like to play fast and think as little as possible. This DOES NOT mean that we all need to start making killbox maps. Those maps tend to be popular for one reason: they're very small to download. Server ops are more willing to host a 200k map than a 5mb map if people are going to download it off them. Also, during the learning and adjusting period we're all going through right now, killboxes are quick and easy to make.

MY own personal feeling is that tiny crappy maps (like fy_iceworld) aren't fun. I like to play things where my performance has something to do with my relative skill. This is the problem I have with HL2DM right now. The maps have so many props lying around that they become killboxes. They're simply an excuse to play with the grav gun. In HLDM, the gameply equired to you effectively know how to navigate each map and use each weapon smartly (mmm trip mines). Right now, HL2DM doesn't have that. You can have the best aim in the world, but it doesn't matter when you're in a cramped room with 8 file cabinets being tossed around. It's chaos over skill. Eventually players are going to get tired of it.

So if you're planning on entering Valve's contest, for the love of god make sure your map rewards those with skill instead of those who can mash their grav gun as fast as possible.

[Thrik]

Yeah, the gravity gun is very fun, but it becomes a bit tiresome when you can completely obliterate anybody with it, at any time, anywhere. This is mainly down to there simply being too many props to chuck around, which means that if you're facing off somebody carrying the ultra-powerful alien gun thingy, it means shit all since they can just throw a table at you and kill you instantly.

[Nazul]

I dont see how a big open feild with some big boxes for cover can be so much fun..

it's not , that's why my map isn't a "big open field" and doesnt have 3v0l crates in em

i'm doing a final version now ,gonna name the maps i make ( the nublars ) : nz_"insertNUBmapNAMEhere" so you know where to look

oh, the final includes Cubemapping

[InsaneSingingBlender]

i dont know bout you but i use alot of strategy in hl2dm, i always go to get health, i know where the weapons are, and i always drop some grenades in the spawning areas. theres alot of chaos but theres some strategy underneath it all.

[EviLTaxi]

i dont know bout you but i use alot of strategy in hl2dm, i always go to get health, i know where the weapons are, and i always drop some grenades in the spawning areas. theres alot of chaos but theres some strategy underneath it all.

word!

[Tequila]

Still, I would prefer a map that cuts back on the randomly strewn physics objects and goes back to HL1 DM roots, which is what I plan on doing.

[Taylor]

Haven't we gone over this shit like 50,000 times already? I still remember the ruckus on the contrary in IRC back when de_dust was proving to be a little on the popular side (to say the least).

[Thrik]

Sometimes old knowledge gets fucked up the ass and lost, kind of like the dark ages.

[Rubbish]

^^^ What Fletch said.

I think the main problem with DM though, is that everyone spawns with a (almost) full complement of weapons - too many grav guns and it's insanity - but add machine guns and grenades as well and no-one really stands a chance - its just all a bit random.....

Make the grav gun a prestige weapon, I say.

By all means make them relatively easy to pickup, but everybody spawning with gravs AND submachine guns AND grenades??? This effectively ensures that the 2 maps we have now are 100% Mongolian clusterfucks - so little skill is needed provided you know how to 'game the game' - e.g. by spamming grenades into populated areas /sitting with your back against the wall with a table in your (antigravity) hands.

I finished 75/11 against my housemate on lockdown yesterday but it got a bit boring about halfway through.....

[Duff-e]

team deathmatch def has a more solid feel of organization.....i find myself playing TDM a lot more than DM

[Spellbinder]

Private, pre-arranged playtests would be a great addition to mapcore. Organizing playtests could be as elaborate as an entire forum section devoted to scheduling playtests, (where mappers could post a possible play time and server), to a simple, quick ask around on IRC. Playtests comprised solely of other level designers would certainly help out to balance out the gameplay of an upcoming map.

I tryied that 2 years ago.

Gathered ppl in dif channels and we used to play.

Also you have bots, dont know about hl2 and all its mod´s but several other mods for different games has bots.

Many maps has been tested that way for instance blaaazer´s de_bright.

Funlevel is always importent to ppl that plays online, but fun is fun in different ways with different ppl.

Some go crazy on fy_iceworld and it gets played A LOT on pubs, (not my favorite though) but also great looking and tactical maps like dust (orig) and bright that are both.

And i agree, the community would benefit to work togheter rather then bashing each other maps.

But i also agree with the expression "dont EVER show your first map EVHA!"

And in the end you will always stand alone so live with it.

Spellbinder.