Robert Yang -- Level Design... now with GDC post-mortem!

[Campaignjunkie]

I talked to HR people / non-designers at other booths... but they were polite, at least.

I mean, I understand why the Crytek guy was irritated with me -- he was probably tired after the past few days, probably had better things to do, and I clearly wasn't prepared and didn't know enough -- and yes, he was totally within his right to be kinda hostile because I was wasting his time, and I understand he doesn't represent the whole company, etc...

I'm sure he's a good guy and loves Jesus and everything, but he still made me feel pretty shitty, justified or no. I'm not seeking sympathy or an explanation, I'm just putting out my experience so people can be prepared in case that happens when they talk to some other studio, because I was really caught off-guard by his attitude.

[Furyo]

Oh you're right CJ, it doesn't excuse the behavior. All I was saying is "don't count Crytek and these other ones out on that one encounter alone"

[Zacker]

Hey CampaignJunkie, I thought you were in the industry already? You were making kickass levels like 5+ years ago Your old Half-Life maps holds up very well!

[Defrag]

Interesting thread.

CJ: One of my friends who's been to a few conferences observed the same thing regarding Crytek, so I wouldn't feel too bad about it (he found it pretty funny, but then he wasn't trying to get a job, he was just watching / chatting with folk).

[KungFuSquirrel]

It's such a terrible attitude for any developer to have. And I'm sure that's just one guy out of a company of a lot of dudes with a lot of viewpoints and he doesn't represent the whole studio, but talent, skill, and knowledge even today are still far more valuable than the specific knowledge of any one tool set and can be transplanted into virtually any tool that exists. I mean, sure, prior knowledge of the tools you'd be using is valuable if it's a company that has made their tools available, but brushing someone off on those grounds, particularly someone who has developed some mad technical chops in another engine, is just poor form.

Hey CampaignJunkie, I thought you were in the industry already? You were making kickass levels like 5+ years ago Your old Half-Life maps holds up very well!

Only 5? I think we rolled him into NW almost 7 years ago, and he had some damn fine skills dating back farther than that.

God I feel old. CJ, weren't you, like... 11 at the time?

[2d-chris]

I pretty much knew nothing of Cry Engine when applying, still can't deny that developers seem allot more interested if you show them something made on their engine. I'm not suggesting thats why Robin was very helpful but I doubt he'd be so interested showing a Crysis map

I wasnt at GDC, so they have some kind of Recruitment hall where developers keep an eye out for potential employees? If thats where you spoke to Crytek they should of made a better impression :\

[Furyo]

Well, being the latest Crytek recruit from Mapcore, I can vouch for that. I still haven't opened the CryEngine tools to this day, and that has not even been mentioned in the interview. What matters to us developers (and we are the ones every recruit ends up working with) is your design skills and philosophy, and the work method you use to achieve that. Anything else is secondary.

Crytek is still recruiting now, and I've always helped anyone looking for some whether on Mapcore or in my network. If you're still interested in a few weeks, I can make sure your resume falls in the right hands.

[ElectroSheep]

"hate to be student"

[Campaignjunkie]

God I feel old. CJ, weren't you, like... 11 at the time?

I think I was 14. But still... ha, I had no idea what I was doing. (And maybe to some extent I still don't!) I was just happy to be in this team setting that was really supportive and nurturing. Seeing Ken's RMFs made me scream, they taught me so much about brushwork and how to build stuff, and I feel like I'm forever indebted to you for the opportunity and trust.

(When's that NW post-mortem coming out, by the way? Because here's what I think went wrong -- we should've cut half the game, polished it, and released it. But hindsight's 20/20.)

***

Anyway! Here's a write-up of what happened when I went to Valve's gigantic Steam-plex citadel at GDC -- http://www.blog.radiator.debacle.us/201 ... art-2.html

It's basically just me gushing over Robin Walker for a few pages, but I hope it's still somewhat interesting to read for people. I was definitely star-struck. I hope that didn't make for a bad impression.

***

And okay: Crytek is a lovely place with lovely people so don't listen to my slander!

Furyo, I'm curious though -- what do you do then generally, as a senior level designer at Crytek, if you haven't even opened the editor? Do you just write stuff in Word and Excel and hold meetings?

[Furyo]

Oh I will make sure to start learning the tools the moment I arrive. My point is it's clearly not a necessity to land a job there (or anywhere for that matter). But yeah of course you end up making things, but tools are tools and after you've been around a couple engines, noticeably 1 example of each large family of engines (brush based "BSP" engines and meshes based ones) you can learn any tool in a matter of a few weeks.

In other words, if you're good enough to be in this industry, why would you not be able to master the tools that are made available to the public? It's a piece of cake most of the time.

Case in point:

- Landed my first job in the industry with only 1 year of Hammer experience and 1 map. Had to learn a proprietary mesh based Ubisoft engine and tools. Happened in a month.

- Arrived in Montreal to work on Prince of Persia, with no knowledge of the Anvil editor (it had only been used by Assassin's Creed), another Ubisoft engine and tools suite. What's more, I would now use Max to model my levels. Guess what, I had not touched Max or any modeling software ever before. Happened in all of 1 week before I was given a map to make for the game.

so yeah, again, a designer is interesting because of his vision and what he can bring to the team. You don't teach that, but you can learn tools.

[KungFuSquirrel]

I think I was 14. But still... ha, I had no idea what I was doing. (And maybe to some extent I still don't!) I was just happy to be in this team setting that was really supportive and nurturing. Seeing Ken's RMFs made me scream, they taught me so much about brushwork and how to build stuff, and I feel like I'm forever indebted to you for the opportunity and trust.

(When's that NW post-mortem coming out, by the way? Because here's what I think went wrong -- we should've cut half the game, polished it, and released it. But hindsight's 20/20.)

I need to get around to writing it yet. I have bullet points! Your post pretty much covers it, though - the best thing (team setting) and the worst thing (not stepping back and finishing the damn thing properly). I still look back on it fondly, though. Glad to see you do too!

[General Vivi]

So.... I had my gf sit down and play through your 2 maps, during polaris she got scared and didn't want to go into the forest cause she thought something was going to jump out at her lol. I literally had to convince her that it wasn't that kind of game.

I also found it very interesting how she got through parts of the brain one without any real knowledge of previously playing any hl2 game or mod.

If you want... I actually recorded her playing if you'd be interested in watching the demos.

- vivi

[FrieChamp]

So.... I had my gf sit down and play through your 2 maps, during polaris she got scared and didn't want to go into the forest cause she thought something was going to jump out at her lol. I literally had to convince her that it wasn't that kind of game.

I also found it very interesting how she got through parts of the brain one without any real knowledge of previously playing any hl2 game or mod.

If you want... I actually recorded her playing if you'd be interested in watching the demos.

- vivi

That's awesome, please share!

[Zacker]

So.... I had my gf sit down and play through your 2 maps, during polaris she got scared and didn't want to go into the forest cause she thought something was going to jump out at her lol. I literally had to convince her that it wasn't that kind of game.

I also found it very interesting how she got through parts of the brain one without any real knowledge of previously playing any hl2 game or mod.

If you want... I actually recorded her playing if you'd be interested in watching the demos.

- vivi

That's awesome, please share!

Yeah, yay for using girlfriends for user research! (even though it includes use of the "my gf..." line on an internets forum)

[General Vivi]

My Gf plays your mod installment #1

Radiator - Download Demos

Test 01 - Polaris

Test 02 - Handle with care

instructions -

Download and unzip the file, put the demo files in your sourcemods\morematter folder. Run the game (radiator 1-2: handle with care) open up console and type playdemo then whatever the name of the demo is you want to watch.

-Vivi and Kristen