Downloadable Content for Console/PC RPGs...

[Izuno]

I'm doing some research on downloadable content & expansion packs for PC/console RPGs like Fallout 3, Mass Effect 1&2, Dragon Age, Oblivion, etc. A lot of DLC is becoming free at launch if you purchase a new copy of the game, such as what EA has done with Dragon Age and Mass Effect 2. Of course, not all RPG DLC is free, and for sure major expansion packs sold at retail are not free.

A few questions. If you play RPGs feel free to answer as much or as little as you want:

- Does the DLC for these RPGs actually interest you?

- Would new DLC bring you back to play the game if you beat it already or otherwise stopped playing it?

- How long after a game releases would you still be interested in DLC?

- Have you/do you buy the expansion packs to RPGs? How long after the original game releases would you want a major expansion pack to be released?

Thanks!

[Sentura]

dlc in the definition stated nowadays interests me very little. usually i would think the content is simply too small to offer any worthwhile quality. however, i do enjoy major expansions to a game; albeit this may have been influenced by the earlier gaming days where expansions were more common than sequels. since dlc does not interest me per se, i will not answer those questions. expansions some 6-9 months after release of a game will definitely spark new interest; however this is also dependant on the quality of the game the expansion is for.

[dux]

- Does the DLC for these RPGs actually interest you?

Not really. Sometimes it does, Dragon Age's didn't as my mates who love the game said they were short and shit so didn't bother with them. Plus they wanted money.

- Would new DLC bring you back to play the game if you beat it already or otherwise stopped playing it?

It would have to be EXTREMELY good.

- How long after a game releases would you still be interested in DLC?

Doesn't matter, above applies to this equally to me.

- Have you/do you buy the expansion packs to RPGs? How long after the original game releases would you want a major expansion pack to be released?

Dragon Age's expansion can't come soon enough. I have all of the Oblivion Expansions as well.

Here's a question to anyone familiar with Dragon Age's DLC. There's this thing called EA points or whatever. You have to pay money to get these points as far as I can work out so you can then spend the points on getting the DLC. You have Achievements in Dragon Age which tally up into it's own points, which so far I have 670 or so out of 1600 or whatever. Why don't your Achievement points translate into EA points or wahtever it's called so you can use those Achievement points to get the DLC instead of having to pay money for them? Makes perfect sense to me. It's like "Hey, thanks for buying spending all the time playing our game! Here's a little reward for your playtime from us just to say thank you." Oh wait, they wouldn't do this because they don't get any money for it.

[Jetsetlemming]

I've never bought a single piece of DLC, though back in the day I would regularly get expansion packs for full games. I'm anticipating Dragon Age: Awakenings cause it sounds like a real good sized expansion instead of the super small stuff that typically passes for DLC (even though I'm only like three hours into the main game so far, I really liked what I played but then got distracted, it's been hard to sit down and put a significant amount of time into games lately. Even a replay of Portal cause the new radios + ending I haven't managed to finish yet...)

[Izuno]

Very interesting feedback so far. Thanks.

I've been getting the feeling that paying for little bits of DLC such player skins, weapons or even new squad mates in games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect 2 aren't actually worth paying in most cases.

I haven't downloaded anything for Mass Effect 2 yet myself, even though it is free since I got a new copy of the game and it includes the free Cerberus Network card code in the packaging. Obviously if I didn't have that I'd have to pay the $15 (in the US anyway) to get access, then I assume I'd get all the DLC for "free".

dux - The idea of being able to use achievement points to get more free DLC is interesting...as in rewarding fan loyalty. Thanks for bringing that up.

sentura - I've heard that exact sentiment from other people I've spoken with this, for RPGs anyway. High quality expansion packs are more likely to be worth the money than a $10 DLC pack that includes some new content. As for the 6-9 after the initial game ships, I'm tending to think gamers won't wait as long for expansions anymore unless the original game was freaking awesome and the expansion has that potential as well. My favorite expansion packs of all time regardless of genre were HL: OP4 and Warcraft 3: Frozen Throne and if I recall those both took at least a year to come out after their respective original games? My point is that today the time window probably needs to be shorter than that.

Jetsetlemming - does that include for shooter games? ie...ever buy a mappack for a Call of Duty game or other shooter? Those seem to be relatively popular DLCs...almost to the point of being mini expansions though I would definitely not classify them as true expansions.

Speaking of that...these days the RPGs seem to have more expansion packs while shooter games tend to have more DLC/map-packs for multiplayer.

[Taylor]

You might want to look into the incredibly cheeky DLC for Cross Edge. Not sure how well it's done, though (but it doesn't really matter, it's not costing development time).

[Steppenwolf]

I'm not a friend of DLC. Basicly it tries to replace the modding community on consoles and does a very poor job at it while charging money.

I'm ok with big expansions like for GTA IV. Small stuff like a set of extraarmor or another character doesn't interest me much. I will take it if it's free but i wouldn't pay money for it.

[Jetsetlemming]

Jetsetlemming - does that include for shooter games? ie...ever buy a mappack for a Call of Duty game or other shooter? Those seem to be relatively popular DLCs...almost to the point of being mini expansions though I would definitely not classify them as true expansions.

I play these on PC, and I can't think of any PC games with commercial map packs, at least none that I own. I really like the content Valve releases though, like the TF2 character pack updates. I actually just started a reinstall of TF2 today, and while the install prompt claimed 2.7 GB, Steam started downloading 4.9 GB of content. I was dumbfounded to see that number.

[-HP-]

A few questions. If you play RPGs feel free to answer as much or as little as you want:

- Does the DLC for these RPGs actually interest you?

- Would new DLC bring you back to play the game if you beat it already or otherwise stopped playing it?

- How long after a game releases would you still be interested in DLC?

- Have you/do you buy the expansion packs to RPGs? How long after the original game releases would you want a major expansion pack to be released?

Thanks!

I don't play a lot of RPG's and I rarely download DLC's tbh.

I did however bought the first DLC for Fallout3, and it was horrible. I've read somewhere that the other 3 or 4 that came out after that one are much much better, I should give it a try one of these days.

Also, buying DLC's on that Microsoft live thingie or whatever it's called, is a pain in the ass. You have to buy points with your credit card, and then with those points you can buy the DLC. This is the most utterly retarded thing since the invention of.. god knows what.

I'm talking PC here btw, on the PS3 everything is much better and quicker. I got stuff like Wipeout, and LBP (Extras) as easily as the press of a button.

A good game, is a good game forever so... It's not like I have a time limit for DLC's. In fact, the latter the better cos I like to get back to games I played a few months back and relive the experience.

[Furyo]

- Does the DLC for these RPGs actually interest you?

The only DLC I ever was interested in was in Rock Band, whether free or not. I think DLC works for me if there is a very strong emotional connection with the content, as the songs for Rock Band I bought always were favorites of mine even 15-20 years ago, so the promise to be able to play them was more than worth the price of admission.

The lack of that type of connection with every other DLC content makes it very hard to bother with the rest. EXCEPT it if automatically downloads, such as what Valve does with Steam and its games. I've played and enjoyed the DLC that came for TF2 and L4D, but whether they constitute "traditional" DLCs is debatable. Updates is a better term. And that stigmatisation of the term DLC may be a sign that maybe the term is viewed negatively.

- Would new DLC bring you back to play the game if you beat it already or otherwise stopped playing it?

Yes in the case of the Rock Band songs, but that's because you can't beat the game (there is no end to it) and the new DLC is the ENTIRE gaming experience in itself. Unlike playing the same game again with a different skin.

In the case of L4D, or other Valve games, the renewed interest came through additional achievements more than for the game itself.

So in a nutshell, either the DLC is an entirely new gameplay experience and you only play that new experience on its own, or the achievements that come with it are enough for me to pay attention to the game once more.

- How long after a game releases would you still be interested in DLC?

Hard to pinpoint that, because the only answer is "As long as I'm still interested in the game in the first place" See, my position with DLC is that it doesn't work for me to revive a dead interest, but to prolong an existing one. It's a very thin line, but one multiple publishers adopt when using DLC has a way to keep the customers from reselling their copy on the second-hand market.

For Rock Band, it fades very quickly, then it will be rekindled for a couple weeks when a brilliant album comes out. The release of Pearl Jam's Vs album made me jump from my seat, but I had to wait for another year (it seems at least) before Megadeth's Rust in Peace was made available. In between, no interest whatsoever in the DLC OR the game itself.

For L4D, I play the game regularly to this day with or without DLC so I'm always interested in additional content, but you'd argue I don't need any....

- Have you/do you buy the expansion packs to RPGs? How long after the original game releases would you want a major expansion pack to be released?

I play games that contain RPG elements, but very rarely RPGs in the traditional sense of the term. Either way I generally don't play SP games more than once, so the prospect of a DLC that would take hours to access via the actual game is completely uninteresting to me. For the DLC to interest me it needs to be accessible from the main game's menu, and playable at any time in the game.

[AlexM]

DLC has changed my policy about buying games. Since games with DLC eventually come out a couple years later packaged with all the previous content for a reduced cost I just wait until that point comes.

Because of that I haven't purchased Dragons Age or Fallout3 yet. I'm patient, I would rather wait for the "whole package" 2 years later than buy it now and incrementally keep up with the addons.

I'm happy though because at the end I get a larger game for less money

[Jetsetlemming]

DLC has changed my policy about buying games. Since games with DLC eventually come out a couple years later packaged with all the previous content for a reduced cost I just wait until that point comes.

Because of that I haven't purchased Dragons Age or Fallout3 yet. I'm patient, I would rather wait for the "whole package" 2 years later than buy it now and incrementally keep up with the addons.

I'm happy though because at the end I get a larger game for less money

The whole package for Fallout 3 is already out, though, I'm pretty sure Beth has publicly said Mothership Zeta was the final FO3 DLC, and they're all up to that one included with the GOTY edition.

[AlexM]

DLC has changed my policy about buying games. Since games with DLC eventually come out a couple years later packaged with all the previous content for a reduced cost I just wait until that point comes.

Because of that I haven't purchased Dragons Age or Fallout3 yet. I'm patient, I would rather wait for the "whole package" 2 years later than buy it now and incrementally keep up with the addons.

I'm happy though because at the end I get a larger game for less money

The whole package for Fallout 3 is already out, though, I'm pretty sure Beth has publicly said Mothership Zeta was the final FO3 DLC, and they're all up to that one included with the GOTY edition.

Ah I just haven't been keeping up, I figured it would happen sooner or later. Essentially if a game is gonna have a series of DLC, I wait for the GOTY edition and consider that the finished product.

[Izuno]

Thanks for continuing feedback.

Some general conclusions I'm coming to between responses here and some other discussions I've been having:

- Free DLC is take or leave it. If it's good people will grab it. If it sucks it's a waste of time.

- Paying for weapons, armor and minor stuff isn't generally worth $10 even if a bunch of it is jammed together because it's mostly just window dressing

- If said minor DLC was cheaper...ie only a dollar to add a weapons pack that actually made the game more fun and added replayability, it might warrant a purchase

- XBL still has the issue of requiring Microsoft points that many people don't like compared to buying with direct credit card on PSN, even if they still really like their Xbox 360 in general

- Larger RPG DLC packs consisting of new areas/quests/missions that have been typically priced at $10 (in US anyway) are likely to be purchased to keep the experience going mainly if you loved the original game and the DLC came out while you still care about it. There is a chance such worthy non-free DLC might bring back lapsed players, but you will probably get more people to buy it if it comes out closer to the original game release (like 1 to 3 months) or within 1 to 3 months of last worth non-free DLC.

(Zomg there's more? )

As for expansion packs:

- Traditionally only PC RPGs had expansions and like anything else fans would buy if the content was really good. Duh!

- Console RPGs didn't really have expansions until 360/PS3 era. Shivering Isles was first true console (and PC) expansion pack but it wasn't DLC

- Fallout 3 has had most expansions but they were all released as DLC as well, then some were released in bundled retail packs.

- By now RPG DLC and expansion packs are kind of the same, meaning that rather than make big expansions developers are making "sorta big" DLC packs that hopefully are worth the $10 bucks and may also get sold at retail. However, Dragon Age Awakenings will be a true expansion priced at $40 (as opposed to $60 for Dragon Age) and be significantly larger than the typical DLC.

Any more opinions?

[Furyo]

i think another point to be made is about the nature of the payment. By nature the smaller DLCs are (to me at least) a matter of impulsive purchases, so permitting easy payment methods should interest your own customers Jeremy. I'm thinking a publisher based system that spans all their game, where you sign up a bit like you would with Xbox Live or PSN, and you would withdraw straight from money you deposited there either via credits or real money. I think with these transactions, a good part of the lost sales come when you need to enter your credit card details and add additional points or money to your account. It gives customers a minute to think about it again, or they have to get up and find their card etc etc.