Reading Language

[Sentura]

well honestly any language you pick regardless of vocabulary is at best going to be an emulation of thought through a semantic. if you'd manage to find or create one that can translate semantics perfectly, i would personally crown you are the ruler of the entire known universe.

[Duff-e]

What makes an author talented and a book exceptional is GETTING "emulation of thought through a semantic." I've heard many great authors say that the novel in their head is much better than the one they manage to get down on paper. For better or worse, language is how we communicate. I could say that in my head I have devised the greatest story ever created, but that doesn't do anyone much good. For this reason new technology is being created all the time the enhances the way we communicate (music, film, video games).

It's similar to why a program might be written in C instead of binary. You sacrifice some efficiency (requiring better hardware) for the ability to express yourself (not taking 2 days to write a program that converts Fahrenheit to Celsius).

Being inspired by a translated novel is a testament to the greatness of the work, especially if it's translated by someone other than the original author. It's like breaking down Michelangelo's David into fist sized rocks, sweeping them into a pile and having people still look at them in awe.

[Warby]

What makes an author talented and a book exceptional is GETTING "emulation of thought through a semantic." I've heard many great authors say that the novel in their head is much better than the one they manage to get down on paper. For better or worse, language is how we communicate. I could say that in my head I have devised the greatest story ever created, but that doesn't do anyone much good. For this reason new technology is being created all the time the enhances the way we communicate (music, film, video games).

*standing ovation*

i have never seen the thoughts in my head expressed this nicely in written word ! /edit now thinking about it that is quite a meta accomplishment considering our topic !

i salute you !

/edit this thread is over now we have successfully completed it !

[Gloglebag]

Literary stuff in the original language or english.

Science stuff, whatever is cheapest.

[Duff-e]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not warby :x

[Steppenwolf]

what i wonder the most is how people can read Goethe, Buechner and Schiller and stuff like this in a translated version?

Interesting thought. Germans proud themself of being the people of poets and thinkers. But how could an outsider ever truly appreciate german literature without speaking the language perfectly? Foreigners may have heard storys about Goethe and Schiller but what are their chances to grasp them? Even in german its hard because their way of using the language is so oldschool by now.

[Duff-e]

Well Faust is on my list of things to read and I can't read German so I'll let you know when I get there

When people speak about the german literature you mentioned above it usually is in some kind of metaphorical abstraction. For example the entire play or book will be condensed into a single theme and that theme is what you're referring to when you say something like "Faustian." Of course it varies but for your normal college educated layman this is what I most often see.

Do people in Germany read translated works of Shakespeare? To me that sounds as ridiculous as translating Goethe sounds to you. But then in that same respect the Italians probably think we're wasting our time reading a translated version of Dante's Inferno.

[Steppenwolf]

Goethes influence on german philosophy (and a lot of other fields) was tremendous. And i think its possible to discuss this on a scientific level. It's even possible to understand concepts like "faustian" as you mentioned. It's just a synonym for something that you once desired but that will haunt you forever now that you have it.

I would still think its damn impossible to understand the beauty of Goethes poetry without speaking the language. The whole book(s) is made of perfectly rhyming and flowing poems. I wouldn't even know how to translate a single line of it.

My guess is that english translations cover the story but nothing beyond that. And probably it's the same with Shakespeare translated to german. I'm not really an expert tho.

[Sentura]

Do people in Germany read translated works of Shakespeare? To me that sounds as ridiculous as translating Goethe sounds to you. But then in that same respect the Italians probably think we're wasting our time reading a translated version of Dante's Inferno.

suddenly, it becomes clear why the bible is so controversial

[Duff-e]

Oh Steppenwolf I know that Faust is worthy of all the merits it's given. I don't claim to understand them all but I've read about the philosophy behind it and everything beyond that. What I was trying to say is that in the conversations where "Faust" or "Faustian" came up it was clearly just a stand in for the expression "making a deal with the devil." From my experience this is the extent to which your average person in the U.S. comprehends Faust. I'm not implying that we're stupid, I'm just agreeing with you that a lot of the subtlety that makes it a classic for native German speakers is lost on others.

[FrieChamp]

Tell me more about these "books" ...

[e-freak]

There are translations of shakespeare and some of them are very good. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sein_oder_Nichtsein,_das_ist_hier_die_Frage is an except from the translation and it shows how good that works (although the original version is still the "true" one. Schlegel - the translator, lived only a good 150 years later than shakespeare (little compared to our 400 years timespan) and captured the feelings very nice (it might be also helpful that his brother friedrich is one of the founders of the german romantic and brother in law to Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy (who wrote the overtoure of the hebrids - fingal's cave). So he had a very good insight into what makes good german language and what made good english language.

[DaanO]

Duff-e, have you read Oblomow by Goncharow? If not, go get it! If you like Russian authors

[Sentura]

oblomov is awesome

[⌐■_■]

i love this thread! and yeah im getting a little into russion literature so any tips (apart from the obvious) are more then welcome