[L4D] Low Rises

[sarge mat]

So this is the main thing I have been working on over the last wile. I still have a load to do and its the first of two levels for this campaign but I think its a bit over due for some proper feedback. You will notice a few un-detailed still etc. I am working on some rain effects and things like that but removed it for the screen shots.

Just to explain the panic event the lift is blocking the way up so it must be moved before you can get to the ladder.

Update: new shots down the page.

shit. can't see it in this screen but there is a crane with a blinking light acting as a landmark on the towers. Going to make them a bit higher.

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[sarge mat]

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Just got rid of the links to them to save page space as they are old now.

[OhSnap]

Couple things that jumped out at me;

Doorways should have trims.

Your walls look REALLY thick. 16 units maybe? I always thought 8 was standard

Some of your rooms look GINORMOUS. The starting room is hella huge, and has 2 tables and a TV in it. What room is this supposed to be (in the real world)?

High Voltage sign near an elevator confuses me. Is it an elevator? Now I'm not so sure...

It also looks really dark. It's hard (or impossible?) for me to get any sense of the flow of the level, but make sure something is leading the player along... Lighting, objects, blood smears etc. Get it playtested and insist on some people running through with their flashlights off. It helps a lot in finding weak areas that aren't leading the player. (Did for me, anyway)

[sarge mat]

Couple things that jumped out at me;

Doorways should have trims.

Your walls look REALLY thick. 16 units maybe? I always thought 8 was standard

Some of your rooms look GINORMOUS. The starting room is hella huge, and has 2 tables and a TV in it. What room is this supposed to be (in the real world)?

High Voltage sign near an elevator confuses me. Is it an elevator? Now I'm not so sure...

It also looks really dark. It's hard (or impossible?) for me to get any sense of the flow of the level, but make sure something is leading the player along... Lighting, objects, blood smears etc. Get it playtested and insist on some people running through with their flashlights off. It helps a lot in finding weak areas that aren't leading the player. (Did for me, anyway)

Thanks mate

Yea I need to go around and add proper trims on them all. Yea I noticed my self today that they are too think for the doors etc. Stupid error on my part. Same with the room I need to look at a few of them and make them smaller.

yea the high voltage thing looks a bit weird. My goal is to make the lift area look like its was being worked on which is also why its up the shaft a bit and the player has to move it in order to progress. I should post a top down view of the map tonight but yea the lights are basic to say the least in a lot of parts I need to get in and add a lot more stuff to lead the player though as you say. I did end up removing a lot of stuff though when I rebuilt the tower block because the first version was crap.

Thanks mate. Going to work on all that stuff.

[sarge mat]

Update time

First of all I posted a beta version here if you want to try it out.

I think I have made a lot of progress on this one. Still need to work on lights, too dark in places still and I want to spend the weekend filling out rooms and space with more detail so they don't feel so empty.

Before the screenshot's I have a small issue with the 3d sky box. As you can see in the screenshot below the level can be seen above its self. Tried everything I can think of

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Not sure whats up with the fire. been trying out some stuff there, going to have it smoking a bit, sparks etc.

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[2d-chris]

your environment light needs to match your skybox, your lighting in general could be allot better, make it brighter and try using colors like 3D-Mike talks about here ...

http://www.3d-mike.com/game/lighting.htm

I know its a night map but the same rules apply Night maps are actually MUCH harder to make effective lighting even though you'd think it's easier!

[sarge mat]

Thanks dude. About to jump in and do more now. Will read that link.

[OhSnap]

The lighting link posted is good, check that out.. It's probably a good idea to read up on general color theory as well. All your lights appear to be purely white (except the fire and red lights on the forklift)

Not to harp on it too much, but door trims. Seriously, look at ANY door in the real world. They won't look like yours. I know you might figure it's just a stupid minor detail, but there's this thing called cognitive dissonance where you notice the tiny things that look WRONG even if they're really minor. So even if your map is doing a lot of things really great, a lot of people will instinctively be drawn to the things that look weird. For me, that's door trims...

Other stuff;

In screenshot 004, you have 2 different buildings sharing a face. White bricks and red bricks. It looks... odd, to me. It might just be the perspective, but I'd put something to break that line up, like a fenced alley or something. (Why's a camping lantern sitting on top of a car...)

screenshot 007, large swathes of walls/ceiling with nothing interesting on them.

screenshot 010, a window wouldn't have its bottom edge that close to the floor. In my college drafting class windows were always at least 36 inches off the floor, but, admittedly, I don't know if that's an architectural standard or was just the teachers.

screenshot 016, there doesn't seem to be much debris for the area, considering it looks like a bus went through a brick wall. (I know I know, it's a WIP... just saying)

screenshots 019 to 022, this whole area (with the white tiled floor) looks REALLY open. What is it supposed to be? I could see it working as like a building lobby, but there's no desks, counters, chairs, plants, etc to suggest any use for this area.

screenshot 025, it looks like the air vent or whatever that is on the ceiling can be moved to line up with the edges of the boards (?) on the ceiling.

screenshot 029, is that the broken plaster wall used on a brick wall? Not sure if there's a prefab broken brick wall, might have to do it the hard way

[Serenius]

I'm pretty new to mapping, but this is one tip that greatly helped me out for starting out. It's from Cliffy B's UT design tips, but it's a pretty universal thing for any game setting.

Basic Geometry Tip (that a lot of people tend to miss!) Avoid large, flat surfaces. Try to break up walls, floors, ceilings with supports, recessions, decorations, windows, doors, etc… Sounds simple but a lot of newbie mappers miss this.

http://www.cliffyb.com/rants/ut-ld-tips.shtml

There are a lot of items at your disposal to pull this off. For the walls, you can use columns, floor/ceiling trim, pictures/statues, recessions, windows, etc. For ceilings you can use support beams, hanging lights, air ducts, pipes, and wiring (the last few more so in areas that should look like they are under construction). Flooring can be broken up with too many things to list, but sometimes simply giving a border to a long hallway, or transitioning from carpet to hardwood with trim along the edge can really enhance the look for you.

Considering the brightness of your skybox, you may want to consider either using a brighter outdoor light or a darker skybox so they're matching.

Also in this image, the rooflines seem a little too flat.

It's too dark to tell if these are singular large buildings or mutliple buildings with similar heights, but it would look better with some variation. If they are separate buildings, you could simply make some taller than others, or if they are single buildings, you could have a raised section or large structures for a portion of the roof to break up the roof line, both of which are quite common. Examples below.

Urban:

Industrial:

Small town:

This one shows all the roofs that are mostly the same height, but different roof patterns that break it up nicely.

Again, I'm a bit of a rookie, so take my post with a grain of salt, but I think it will make your map go from good to great.

[sarge mat]

Thanks a lot guys

That's a ton of help. Loads to do. Thanks again.

[Serenius]

When in doubt, look at No Mercy 1 & 3, along with Dead Air 1 & 2. Great reference material if you're going for a setting like either of those.

A few other things I noticed looking at your screens more that jumped out at me.

Is light only coming out of the top of the overturned lamp here, or is there a wall/doorway blocking the light that should be coming out of the bottom side of the lampshade?

The closest street light in this picture looks like it's on, but it looks like there's no light being cast from it.

For the broken wall, is there a way to overlay brick texture onto the white? You could also consider changing the surface to get across to a wooden plank, which will make it a little more dramatic (at least to people with a mild to severe case of acrophobia). Is this current platform an air vent? If so and you stick with that as your platform, you may want to lower them, as they should line up like they're running along the ceiling of the floor below the one you're entering and make sure they have some structural support. I'm guessing this is a spot for smokers to pull survivors down to the street (my personal favorite in versus maps).

[sarge mat]

Yea I have looked back the No mercy a lot.

thanks

point 1: a right lol. Good point will fix that too.

point 2: Yea it too dim. Just boosted the light brightness from it.

point 3: Yea I think wood will look better. As for the wall I can replace the broken part with a model that will fit better or one that's totally stripped of all wall parts and I can add some broken bricks around the bottom.

[sarge mat]

I have named the map Low Rises. I think its a massive improvement so I am posting another beta. I don't think I have covered all the things people have said to me about it just yet and there are really simple things like I need to have the safe room door open by default for better lighting etc etc. Also the lights in the tower are giving bad shadows at the moment and the lift shaft is too dark. But Those things and a lot more I am of to fix today. Audio is also buggy and I am having problems getting my soundscapes to play so none of that stuff is working yet.

Thanks

Beta 2: http://www.filefront.com/15364103/lowrisesbeta2.zip

video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr7rF6gJLF0