Corwin Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 I'm not posting this in the Getting into the Industry topic because I don't want to distract it from its course with what could become too personal. As I am trying to get my portfolio ready to start looking for a full-time position at a game dev company, I can't help but ask myself what would be the most important quality for a level designer to showcase. As a wannabe level designer, I find it hard to really grasp what it is a level designer does, because it all depends on companies and experience, so I find it even harder to get what I should be striving for. It's not like Environment Artists, who can create small but great looking, original levels, or turn concept art into a 3D environment, or model assets to quickly enhance their portfolio (not trying to diminish your work, I have very much respect for you artistic guys). I feel that everytime I'm beginning a new project as a level designer, I can't put the finger on what exactly I should be showing through my work, so instead I create something I want to (which usually gets a bit out of hand, since I'm more passionate with single playing games). It's fine, it all started that way, but I think my portfolio could use some final, small additions like Env Artists would create a few scenes to show more original work than their usual style. I guess what I'd like to know is from people who've been hired based on their modding work and the levels they designed, the ones who ended up in a level designer position or were actually looking for one from the start, is there a specific part of your work that actually got you hired? Something like thinking out-of-the-box, creating experimental designs; or showing that you can work on long-terms projects, being part of modding projects that take years to complete, that you can take an idea and flesh it out and take it to the end; or rather that you can take existing assets of a game and create something completely new and different with them? If any, what aspect of your levels made you stick out of the crowd? Lately, I've had fun creating a level under a month for a competition, so I realized maybe rather than getting in deep with massive, epic projects, I should lower my goals to be able to create more. My idea right now is that after I completed my current project, I'll give myself assignments the way companies sometimes give you assignments to see how you develop a theme or solve a problem. Like, giving myself a couple of weeks to create a level that takes place in the dark and see what puzzles, challenges and cinematic experience I could come up with, without spending much time on the modelling but more on the design. Is that a good idea, or am I trying too hard to cut out what really is evaluated as a whole and I should just keep doing what I do as best as I can and people will understand I have the passion and mind for it? Or am I completely wrong about it, and I should rather try to develop my artistic skills such as modelling and texturing rather than focus on design, because most puzzles and encounters to happen in a specific level would be specified by the game designers anyway, so I should rather enlarge my horizons rather than focus on what I really want to do so I do it best? Finally, how important is it to show that you can write documentation and keep it up to date. I tried to do so for my current project, but I slowly stopped updating it since I'm the only one aboard, there's no much use for it, and I fear it would be a bit hypocritical to show it off like it's some kind of trying-to-do-it-like-a-pro thing while I don't really know how it would really work within a company. Is a Post Mortem more important than full development updates with design docs and all that? Quote
Erratic Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 Shit, there's a lot there to cover that I'm sure others would explain better and more broadly, but I'll see what I can do with the part that I can relate a bit more to: I guess what I'd like to know is from people who've been hired based on their modding work and the levels they designed, the ones who ended up in a level designer position or were actually looking for one from the start, is there a specific part of your work that actually got you hired? Something like thinking out-of-the-box, creating experimental designs; or showing that you can work on long-terms projects, being part of modding projects that take years to complete, that you can take an idea and flesh it out and take it to the end; or rather that you can take existing assets of a game and create something completely new and different with them? If any, what aspect of your levels made you stick out of the crowd? I think what helped being on a mod was mostly just getting shit done any way I could. Being resourceful, being forced to do things you may not be totally comfortable with and extending out into different disciplines. Even if you're not very good, you still end up with a more well rounded, practical sense of how things are done, which informs back to whatever your focus is, in this case, design. A lot of those disciplines end up funneling back to you in some way, small or not, so it's useful to be able to jump on it and recognize a problem and solve it without having to run to someone in every instance. As for what kinds of levels you should focus on, I'd say whatever it is you enjoy the most. This is probably going to come off as some of the most loose ass advice you'll read, but I say take the time to do the shit you're absoloutely passionate about and driven by now, It'll show better in your work and you'll definitely learn more from it. Grinding out some shit you don't care about isn't good for anyone, imo. Multiplayer, singleplayer, whatever, a good level is a good level. From what I've seen, there isn't too much bias towards anyone that has lacked one or the other in their portfolio, I'm sure others have experienced different, but if you produce some good quality stuff, it's hard to argue against it. Also, play games, play a lot of fucking games. Can't stress that anymore. I'm gonna steal a line from Ken Levine, if you don't play games you're not a game developer. Quote
CompoSITe Posted October 8, 2009 Report Posted October 8, 2009 But play those game and think about what they are doing. Why is that part fun, why was I nervous about running around that corner...etc. Design covers a lot of different skills but the biggest comes down to knowing, or figuring out, what is fun. If you are a geo guy or a scripter, it pays huge dividends to know how to get something to play well. Analyze the hell out of other games. As for a portfolio submission, each company will have a different idea of what they want from a designer (as it sounds like you already know). That being the case, either pick what it is you like more and really get good at that or make sure you are good at them all ( I like that later because it gives you better job security ). We look for great geo from the geo guys, fun playing levels from the scripters (with some new ideas thrown in to impress) and what choices you make it those areas. I have seen more guys fail because they had bad ideas of good gameplay then most anything else. Quote
ReNo Posted October 9, 2009 Report Posted October 9, 2009 At Outerlight we're too small a company to pigeon-hole designers too much, we just all do a bit of everything. I've balanced weapon stats, proposed game ideas, written game design docs, built levels, designed HUD layouts, tweaked controller layouts, liased with code about technical limitations we need to bypass, liased with art about character lighting, and much more. I imagine it is a bit more focused in larger companies, so I can't speak for them. So for me I think it was my somewhat varied background that got me the job. I had built HL1/HL2 levels for years and got a degree in computer games tech, so although I'm actually a pretty shit programmer it looked good on paper My portfolio of levels is far from the strongest, and I quite openly hold my hands up and admit I'm far from the best of level designers out there, but then that isn't really what I want to do all the time anyway. And although I had *some* env art to show in my portfolio when I applied for that job (stuff I've since lost and wouldn't show anyway!) it was really quite rudimentary stuff. So I'm not the best at any one area, but I can try my hand at most things. I think it was that versatility that helped me get the job. To answer your questions from my POV and experience (which admittedly isn't very much!)... - I'd recommend you don't bother spending your time polishing your env art skills if you don't want to be an env artist. Pretty pictures in your portfolio catch the eye and all, but chances are you'll never end up using those skills; they'll want you designing levels, not doing the env artists' jobs for them. Not to say that you shouldn't learn a modelling package if you haven't already, as in plenty of studios you'll be expected to use them for level design. Just saying that you don't need to be an artist to be a designer - In terms of documentation, I wouldn't waste your time writing up everything you do as you do it, but post-mortems at the end can definitely help you prove you understand design principles and aren't just building things at random, but in fact give your levels real thought. When working I don't document as I go (well, beyond initial layout sketches and gathering reference material), but I do have to prove I'm doing things for the right reasons, typically just by chatting with the producer or creative director or whoever as they look over my shoulder now and then, or discussing it during playtests. If you're working solo I'd just do things instinctively and occasionally do a (not that elaborate) post-mortem at the end. Really though, if your designs are good then that will shine through in the design itself. And if you've got enough of them, then they won't assume that happened by accident... - What to build? As far as I'm concerned it depends on what you wanna do! The best thing is to build things that interest you as that's the best way to keep your motivation up. Obviously once you get hired you have to build things that DON'T interest you, but by that point getting paid is a replacement motivation But that said, I don't typically approve of spending years on a single project, as you'll just end up with an unfinished project as a result of burning out on it. For the first few weeks of a project you'll be motivated and excited. Try not to let something run too far beyond that or it'll sap away and it gets harder and harder to finish. Don't try and make a 3 hour mod that is entertaining and is punctuated with some really cool moments. Make a 10 minute section of gameplay that IS a cool moment. And if it didn't quite have the level of polish you'd like, don't spend months adding it in. Use those months to make more of these things! It sounds like that is your plan going forward and to me it sounds like a good one. Best of luck! Quote
Furyo Posted October 9, 2009 Report Posted October 9, 2009 What to present? I'd say anything that's finished first and foremost. No one cares that you started 10 maps and never finished anything. You want to get hired you produce polished levels that are playable and available for testing. And yes that can be anything and everything. My first gig I got with my very first map, a FPS one, to work on a sandbox adventure game that turned into a mini games compilation. Clearly you can't anticipate everything but it doesn't matter, let the companies do that thinking. As far as documentation is concerned, I'd say just about none. As long as you can produce some when you actually get the job that'll be fine. What's important is your ability to EXPLAIN your designs YOURSELF. Most companies are not going to read through every single document you submit. A simple glance over the actual maps will tell them all they need to know. The next part will be about being able to explain your decisions during the interview. Remember these guys are pros, they are used to analyzing levels as they play them. That's what we're all paid for. Quote
2d-chris Posted October 9, 2009 Report Posted October 9, 2009 All has been said that needs to be said but I'll throw a few pointers just for fun Pictures say 1000 words an till the time comes where you have to speak! Then just be polite, smile, funny, whitty, humble and quote matt damon as being awesome. The rest is cookie cutter and experience. A little quote I often say that seemed to help me, for the worst interview questione ever ... Q "What do you aim for when designing levels?" " A "I aim for those experiences you remember long after completeing a game" Quote
Ginger Lord Posted October 9, 2009 Report Posted October 9, 2009 Interesting thread, I'm also in the near future about to start the world of pain that is known as finding a job in the games industry. Just need to finish reworking my portfolio first... Quote
Corwin Posted October 10, 2009 Author Report Posted October 10, 2009 Thanks for the insightful replies guys, there's some very good and clear advices in there! Keep them coming As far as documentation is concerned, I'd say just about none. As long as you can produce some when you actually get the job that'll be fine. What's important is your ability to EXPLAIN your designs YOURSELF. Most companies are not going to read through every single document you submit. A simple glance over the actual maps will tell them all they need to know. I was asking because a friend of mine got hired at a big (200+) company thanks to the documentation he wrote for every one of his projects, and he was actually asked to rewrite most of the internal documentation once he got hired. From what I got from books and interviews, I believe it depends on the size of the company really, a smaller one doesn't need so much written material to keep everybody in the loop, while a massive amount of colleagues probably means a greater chance of not being on the same track if you don't carefully explain everything on paper. Pictures say 1000 words an till the time comes where you have to speak! Well that's actually one of my concerns: my pictures can't compete with the environment artists around here, and I'd like to put forward the design and thoughts behind my levels, but that's hard to do with a website without having lots of text, and I agree it's not what would be of most interest visitors trying to evaluate my potential. I might do a video when my current project's done, to show a bit of gameplay and comment my design decisions at the same time. One of you did something like that for his portfolio (can't remember who though) and I thought it was clever. I don't typically approve of spending years on a single project, as you'll just end up with an unfinished project as a result of burning out on it. For the first few weeks of a project you'll be motivated and excited. Try not to let something run too far beyond that or it'll sap away and it gets harder and harder to finish. Don't try and make a 3 hour mod that is entertaining and is punctuated with some really cool moments. Make a 10 minute section of gameplay that IS a cool moment. And if it didn't quite have the level of polish you'd like, don't spend months adding it in. Use those months to make more of these things! It sounds like that is your plan going forward and to me it sounds like a good one. Thanks for that advice. In the past I got way too busy with long-term projects, and yes they tend to burn you out, even though I've always seen them to the end. I'll do that, as soon as my current project is done I'll get cracking onto smaller designs, restricted in length but more intense and showing my skills better than a big project, where the great ideas and decisions can tend to get lost in the size of the thing. play those game and think about what they are doing. Why is that part fun, why was I nervous about running around that corner...etc. Design covers a lot of different skills but the biggest comes down to knowing, or figuring out, what is fun. If you are a geo guy or a scripter, it pays huge dividends to know how to get something to play well. Analyze the hell out of other games. Yeah, I kind of do that instinctively, but lately I've started thinking more actively about the reasons that led designers to create this or that the way they did, and I try to learn lessons from that aswell. Hopefully that'll show later on. Quote
Furyo Posted October 10, 2009 Report Posted October 10, 2009 I stand by what I said. See, your friend who got hired with all his docs got a different job than the one he was going for in the end... Yes you should be able to document things. But working knowledge of a modelling program and world editor will get you a lot further. Most take it for granted that everyone can communicate their thoughts and ideas well. I do take that for granted, and again if it isn't the case that's going to be a huge red flag when you get interviewed. If you want to have docs on your portfolio, fine, but include download links to PDFs and what not. A huge chunk of text is just never going to be read by potential recruiters. Quote
Lord Ned Posted October 13, 2009 Report Posted October 13, 2009 A lot of useful replies in here, thanks. However, my main question is: How do you showcase skills that aren't easily shown visually? I've got all of these skills (Or I'd like to think) that are up in my head that don't easily produce on paper or words... Analyzing maps, finding what's wrong (Why doesn't it play well? What makes this frustrating, etc), or other skills? Would "Publications" per say work? Would these really help make my portfolio stronger? I know as a mapper/enthusiast I enjoy reading publications, both of other mappers/developers (I get a kick out of reading Valve's Siggraph papers, even if half the math/content is above my head. ), so I could make publications under the pretense of helping share my knowledge with other mappers but again... Does it make my portfolio stronger? Do these skills need to be shown in a portfolio? Or is it something that becomes more apparent if you manage to get an interview or chance to talk about your work? Thanks. Quote
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