WIP in WIP, post your level screenshots!

[Rick_D]

Yeah but d2 sets it in a very stacked area of the map - this is very different to dust 2 imho - it has much the same 'theory' (middle connecting off to both bombsites for example) but it is far more close-combat and looks like a very "rushy" map.

I like the simple widening of the A entrance - i would keep it like that as much as you can when it comes to laying it down in Hammer - you see you've got a great AWP shot into the lower A entrance, with another guy to the AWPers right who can watch upper - very nice 'held-back' positions to allow for an easy rotate if B gets taken.

It looks like A is very small though - especially for a dining area, and more importantly for a bombsite; maybe expand it left and up (looking straight down at that drawing) just to give it more defensive areas once the T's plant.

Sorry to keep going on about it but layout is pretty important, although there's no harm in changing it once you find out something doesn't work - as long as you have the patience to do it

[Rick_D]

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[the0rthopaedicsurgeon]

here's a couple more screens of my l4d map. as i said last time, the trees are from corse and will be replaced once the game is released:

This is the cable car station that will link to the 2nd map in the campaign, currently separated from the rest of the map:

[hessi]

if yu want to you can use the tree models. map looks good!

[Rick_D]

mhm I am not sure how well that cable car area fits into it - looks very thrown together - like thing walls and then massive metal supports D:

[Psy]

Sorry to keep going on about it but layout is pretty important, although there's no harm in changing it once you find out something doesn't work - as long as you have the patience to do it

No problems man. The point of all this effort into planning is so that I don't end up with a mess similar to the last iteration of the map.

I removed the second way into the route between A and B because I believe it will just cause more hassles for the CTs at A.

I've added a lower area at A to provide some vertical combat. (Yay!) I've made the route from T Spawn to B a lower area as well and I've also merged the two areas into one.

[GregBoffins]

Why don't you block it out in Hammer, Play it and see - would only take an hour so?

You don't always NEED to stick exactly to what you have drawn, more than often you'll run into something you never thought of while drawing it out.

[BioPulse]

Indeed, blocking out the basic routes can help alot, it doesn't take long, then you can take measurements of how long it takes going from A to B, Ct spawn to A and B and T spawn, and T spawn to ct , A and B.

Comparing the times of T and CT you will see who will possibly have the upper hand in what areas.

You could even draw a quick nav grid for bots to run about on, and see how balanced it is after about 3 hours of 5on5 or so.

According to this you could add shortcuts, or even change the entire layout or make some routers longer/shorter.

Taking these steps will probarbly improve gameplay on your map if it's as good a you want it yet.

[Rick_D]

Yes - I like that alot

ONE more thing (promise!) - after spending a lot of time just looking at it and plotting out some tactics it seems that the stairs at T side would give the T's too many options to storm A before CT's could really do anything about it.

Just a thought

[Rick_D]

Indeed, blocking out the basic routes can help alot, it doesn't take long, then you can take measurements of how long it takes going from A to B, Ct spawn to A and B and T spawn, and T spawn to ct , A and B.

Comparing the times of T and CT you will see who will possibly have the upper hand in what areas.

You could even draw a quick nav grid for bots to run about on, and see how balanced it is after about 3 hours of 5on5 or so.

According to this you could add shortcuts, or even change the entire layout or make some routers longer/shorter.

Taking these steps will probarbly improve gameplay on your map if it's as good a you want it yet.

I agree - nothing helps like actually building it and playing it, and a good layout hasn't always meant the best map; but in my opinion you can tell a lot about how a map will play by looking at an overview, but as I said it never hurts to change things once they are already built just so long as you are dedicated to commit

[BioPulse]

Indeed, you can always adjust your map after it's finished / along the process of building when you ntoice stuff isn't going as you want it to go.

But in my opinion you could save tons of time if you do this in the planning process.

As for the layout, I think it might help if you'd make th T spawn a lower level and make some sort of stairway or whatever up to A (or maybe an entrance in the lower section of A)

This would give CT's a small height advantage for if the T's reach the site before them.

Because, in my experience of cs (pre-source versions) the round is pretty much decided if the bomb has been planted and the CT's don't have a layout advantage (if the teams are fair enough).

Giving the CT's a height advantage would make it just that tiny bit harder to protect the bomb, but with enough hiding spots for the ct's not to just overpower them.

But this is always dependant on the level theme and how filled up a bombsite is, so you might want to take a look at this after you have built the bomb site itself, to see how well T's and CT's of equal skills are matched up in a battle.

Note that CT's need to have enough time to reach the site from where they are, neutralize the T's and defuse the bomb.

I've seen alot of maps who didn't take defusing of the bomb into account in their layout / gameplay planning which leads to allot of defuses going horribly wrong

[Psy]

Well I'm going to be blocking this out later because now I've got a headache. No, really, I mean it. D:

Thanks for the feedback guys. Tis very helpful!

[BioPulse]

Let me know how the blocked out version tuns out ,i'm pretty curious if my suspicions were right.

And really, it might sound silly, but get a stopwatch, and time some runs from places to other places, it helps to give you an idea of what dimensions to use for the length of some passageways etc.

If your good at math you could even calculate how long it takes from a player to run let's say, 128, or 256 units.

This would be some usefull info on further projects so you won't have to time runs anymore, just go by your calculations and make the maps correct layoutwise with pure math

[MrBaracuda]

Well I'm going to be blocking this out later because now I've got a headache. No, really, I mean it. D:

Thanks for the feedback guys. Tis very helpful!

Drink more water!

[D3ads]

I love that Rick D, like HL2 meets FarCry! Didn't know you were so talented, but then I haven't seen much of your work before!

the0rthopaedicsurgeon: Map looks awesome, Hessi's trees fit into that environment perfectly!