Getting into the games industry - John Carmack Perspective

[-HP-]

"How do I work my way up to the games industry" has always been the typical question from people starting up. And here's a few words about that topic from John Carmack.

I'm actually pretty satisfied, although not surprised he mentioned modding on there!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn7GWi7JN3o

[Sentura]

he speaks for programmers only though. i mean you could abstract it to the same for all positions in the game industry, but that would be beyond what he said basically. still, it's nice to know that even with programmers, a degree doesn't carry as much weight as the work you showcase.

[Minos]

I love this guy.

[Furyo]

This is so very true, and so very unappreciated...

[-HP-]

This is so very true, and so very unappreciated...

Care to elaborate on that?

[Furyo]

I just mean that from my perspective hiring someone based on his education makes it really easy to forget all about the guts it takes to be in this industry. I see so many people come right out of game school and land on AAA projects from the get go, thinking they accomplished their lifelong dream and are the kings at the top of hill. Truth is they have a long list of things to accomplish to even warrant their place right there among some of the most talented people in this industry and the way they behave is nothing short of abysmally bad.

To guys with more experience, some of whom have had to sit through endless painful shitty projects before catching their break, it's more like "Fine, you made it in. The real work starts now." And more often than not we are massively disappointed. And it wouldn't be so bad if they were just clueless, they're also arrogant. You can train people who want to learn, and I find that to be one of the most rewarding things to do at work, but you can't teach anything to a guy who knowingly and blatantly creates 5 bugs while fixing his own, just so his stack can stay low.

Plus these same people are the first to complain about their low salary and the first to leave the office when everyone else stays crunching

If those guys had been modders, people who had to struggle to make it in, they're inherently more suited for work and more qualified to work as part of a team, and to mind what everyone else is doing. Being a modder requires you to learn many different skills and techniques you may never even use in your professional life. But in the end that pays off by saving everyone time, and therefore money. And you get to, once in a while, actually help others from other departments simply because you have at least a modicum of knowledge on what you're talking about.

[Warby]

finishing ability is the only currency worth anythign on this battlefield ! and carmeck once more confirms it !

@furyo i hate those guys and i know plenty of them

[Sentura]

how about creating a topic for this kind of knowledge, like a sort of dos and donts of the industry?

[Furyo]

I actually will start one, good idea Sentura

EDIT: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14350&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

[Wunderboy]

If those guys had been modders, people who had to struggle to make it in, they're inherently more suited for work and more qualified to work as part of a team, and to mind what everyone else is doing. Being a modder requires you to learn many different skills and techniques you may never even use in your professional life. But in the end that pays off by saving everyone time, and therefore money. And you get to, once in a while, actually help others from other departments simply because you have at least a modicum of knowledge on what you're talking about.

Interesting point you make there Fuyro, because my experience trying to get into the industry has been the complete opposite. In a few interviews I was told that my broad spectrum of knowledge was actually a bad thing and that modding was "essentially useless unless you have a released and popular mod". I got the distinct impression that, to them at least, unless your mod is out there, top ten and picked up/distributed through something like Steam it's not even worth putting on your CV. And these were with well known and established studios.

[Furyo]

Well to be honest I haven't said you don't need to have shipped anything. It's quite the contrary and exactly the point I was trying to make to illustrate what John Carmack said too. Getting a lot of different experience comes from shipping things, and that's exactly what these school graduates lack (logically at first).

With that said, from the few times we talked about this, it seems your well established studios also were somewhat small in size. I can understand they're even more eager to get experienced and specialized people. Ubisoft Montreal being the largest studio in the world, the requirements are much lower.

[KoKo5oVaR]

finishing ability is the only currency worth anythign on this battlefield ! and carmeck once more confirms it !

@furyo i hate those guys and i know plenty of them

Personally my problem is not to finish something, it's to start it; But once i've started, i finish things pretty well. This is what my lead artist told me at the end of my internship and i think he is very right. When i'm working on my own stuff i always have some trouble to start and stick myself to something because i lack the discipline over myself to do so. But when i'm in a team environment i feel responsible for the work of the people i'm working with, (maybe sometimes too much, my lead artist had to stop me several times before i was taking in charge the responsibility of other people) so when the work of other people is implied i just don't allow me to fuck things up.

And this is probably the most rewarding part of the job, when you share the creation process and the hard work with someone you value and get something done. Well at least this is what motivates me; making 3D art is a cool job, but i also need the human element. This is why i can hardly see myself doing freelance work.

[Nysuatro]

Got the same problem as KoKo5oVaR. I really have problems with starting stuff. I work so much better in a team or just having the pressure of someone who has given me a task.

Most of the time I don't feel like being fully ready to do this and I keep on doing research. But the true fact is that I need more practice and less theory. I am slowly learning how to begin my projects,

but it is a hard and slow way for me. I guess everybody got his negative aspects.

I just kinda solved this problem by looking for a mentor. Because I am a person who needs feedback and I enjoy the bit of attention for my work.

Knowing that somebody is going to evaluate your work and is going to say how bad/good it is is an amazing boost for me.

The true fact is, this kinda depends on your personality. Everybody has his own ways.