Ratio of artists to programmers

[hessi]

i was reading some blog today (i actually didn't bookmark the page ) where some dev claimed that in current game production processes there is a ratio of 4:1 regarding artists:programmers. I actually can't believe that this is true. What are your opinions or experiences? does this ratio depend on the team size in total? are there situations when you think that either party has too many open positions? should there be a trend to get a 1:1 ratio?

from my experience there was pretty much either a 1:1 ratio (~12 employees working on a single title) or 4:5 (almost 1:1 with 9 employees on a single title). speaking of my last company there was a need of more programmers since the graphics were all done and the implementation wasn't keeping up.

from my general understanding it would make perfect sense to have fewer programmers than artists, since a game is more art/design related than an abstraction of mechanics (which is what programmers would usually work on).

this leads me to the question: is a company with a 1:1 ratio a "bad" company?

i come to this question because my very first company was bankrupt almost 1-2 years after i left. the recent one... well i wouldn't be surprised if they wouldn't exist by 2010. both companies had the same "bad" ratio which could indicate some organisation/management wide lack of quality.

discuss!

[Furyo]

I've always had 1:1 ratios, or even more programmers than artists, but keep in mind that I've also worked with Ubisoft engines mostly. The one game I made with Source, we had to create our own 360 engine as Valve was also making their own at the same time, so we didn't license that one...

Maybe this guy is talking about games made with licensed engines.

[hessi]

actually both companies i worked in had licensed game engines. i think i would break an NDA or something when saying which one they used, but both times i worked with the same engine and the engine has been used in a couple of AAA games on various platforms. so the programmers actually should have had a good base.

[Jetsetlemming]

There really aren't too many really heavily licensed engines...

Would it really break an NDA to mention a game engine without mentioning a game name, company name, personal name, etc?

Speaking of which, the only Ubisoft Source game I can think of is Dark Messiah of Might and Magic.

[Furyo]

Trust me there won't be any more

[Jetsetlemming]

Arkane Studios, the Dark Messiah dev (and awesome Arx Fatalis dev) are making another Source game called The Crossing. Wiki doesn't list a publisher for that, though. Might just be Steam.

[Furyo]

It's always been EA, unless that's the project they dropped last year. Haven't kept up-to-date on that front...

[mjens]

Back to the topic...

Programmers:Artists depends on the project. If engine is ready and code-locked, it cuts requirement of a lot of programmers and only graphics artists and LD's have a lot of work...

It also depends who is behind the term "artist" (concept art, 2d, 3d, level design?). That's a lot of people so if we choose only typical artists (3d, concept...) then there should be more programmers instead of artists.

[Skjalg]

I think it really depends on the scope of the game.

I think the bigger the games are, the more artists you need to create the vast world. But, in my experience, most programmers are a little lazy because they got the mentality that since they got a degree (most of them do), and because not many people are programmers; their job is secure. Artists dont feel that way and work their asses of because of it.

I think your question got so many answers Hessi

[-HP-]

Here in the company i work at is a ratio of 3:1.

and i wish it wouldn't be this way, programmers are very important.

[Warby]

if your artists are not generating enough content to keep 1 programmer busy per artist than i think your company is doing something wrong ! at ioi i would guess it to be 2 artists per programmer not counting level designers

[Seldoon182]

Arkane Studios, the Dark Messiah dev (and awesome Arx Fatalis dev) are making another Source game called The Crossing. Wiki doesn't list a publisher for that, though. Might just be Steam.

Arkane stoped the development of The Crossing last year because they couldn't negotiate the game with publishers as they wondered. That suck!

[Steppenwolf]

I would assume it really depends on the kind of game. Something like Civilization certainly needs a higher percentage of programmers while your typical first person/third person shooter would need a higher percentage of artists.

[Jetsetlemming]

Arkane Studios, the Dark Messiah dev (and awesome Arx Fatalis dev) are making another Source game called The Crossing. Wiki doesn't list a publisher for that, though. Might just be Steam.

Arkane stoped the development of The Crossing last year because they couldn't negotiate the game with publishers as they wondered. That suck!

Whaaat? I can't find news of this anywhere, the rare posts on their site and forums suggest they're at least still doing SOMETHING, there are still job postings and stuff D:

[kleinluka]

4:1, maybe he's talking about salaries :roll: