IGDA Discussion Over "Crunch Time" Development

[robert.briscoe]

Source: http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/04/10/0522206

LingNoi writes

"Arguments between members of the International Game Developers Association (IGDA) have been red hot over recent controversy because of a "Studio Heads on the Hotseat" panel video: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7344863953591545577&hl=en (skip to 21:00). The fighting started when IGDA board members (that also happen to be studio executives) which were taking part in the discussions made clear their favor for 'crunch time,' a method of doing overtime on a game to make very tight deadlines. It has been seen as hypocritical that an organization whose goal is to create a better quality of life for developers is lead by studio executives who are happy to overwork employees. The IGDA released a response which didn't take sides on the issue."

What do you guys think of this? I know we have a lot of industry folk here so i'd be interested to see others feelings on this. After watching this clip I feel like Capps came off as a bit of a tool; so you "tell" people you have to do shitloads of crunch so they can notify their families they wont be home for the next few weeks, and that makes it ok? I like the idea of the company sharing profits as a motivator to pull together but I dont think anything can justify insane crunching on any level. I expected crunch when I came into the industry but it really saddens me when I see people exploited because tools like Capps think it's an acceptable part of the job to sacrifice any or all social life to work in the games industry.

[Hourences]

This caused a huge uproar in the dev community, on some private pro forums I am on this discussion has been going for 2-3 weeks now. There are a milion reasons why you can't possibly work like this.

Just to name a few:

According to studies people become less efficient the more they work. Everyone knows this and there is a reason why everyone works 40 hour weeks. Ford figured this out a 100 years ago.

Forcing your employees to work late regularly just means you either suck a whole lot at scheduling or you try to get cheap larbour. Either is really bad.

Promising royalties in return for working over regurlarly is stupid because the employee usually loses out on that deal and in many many cases the game flops and no one ever sees any money.

Promising people royalties is cheaper than just paying overtime, if it weren't most companies would just pay overtime and keep the royalties for themselves. They don't and there is a good reason why they don't. They try to protect themselves and shift the risk to their weaker employees. That is not very nice.

This may work for a studio like Epic, but Epic also serves as an example to many many other studios in this industry. If Epic promotes this way of working many smaller studios will take over their line and also force people to work over regularly, only they usually forget the Epic standard salaries and force people to work over on the next barbie game instead.

And lastly, what do royalties mather if it makes you lose your life and your family really.

And to repeat: you should never ever ever ever ever work harder just because of "royalties". In 99 percent of all situations you will never see any money what so ever, and even if you will it will be hardly enough to compensate for all the time and effort. I have seen plenty of peoples lives go to hell because they tried to rescue already dead projects, and ended up with nothing at all in the end.

[mjens]

Yeah, all executives says that employees shouldn't stay so much time at work but they sign contracts, deadlines are set but there's no way to do everything on time... It's a bit executives fault (wrong deadline arrangement) and employees fault (talking "We have 3 more days so don't hurry so much, you can laze around...").

In some situations "crunch time" is unavoidable... The most annoying thing for me is that many executives forget about "burning out" of hard working employees and creates new project without any delay...

[hessi]

my old employer told the employees to pay royalties if they can get stuff done in time. since the amount of work was too much this was out of a question anyway. so i come to the same point: royalties can be the bullet in your leg.

looking at the same company: how do you feel, if you get your shit done but then someone else doesn't because he wants things to work in a good proper way (and not quick hack n slay development way)? yes, you either think "fuck this slow bastard! he screwed my royalties" which drains on your teams motivation OR you go "we won't get this anyway, since i want to release quality." which also leads to less motivation.

i think people already noticed, that i am not so "friendly" with the video game industry anymore. of course there are exceptions, but overall i see a lot of disappointment right ahead!

[mjens]

I'm wondering how Gears of War 2 or FarCry 2 productions fit into timeline. Those games look like not finished in time so even cruch time didn't help or there was no crunch time at all... We should compare quality of overtimed title and a game made in time. This could show how the "burnout" of employees caused by work rush affects on game quality.

But what to do? Burn your desk and make a little revolt? It's useless, many employees are addicted to the company (not job) so they will stay quiet.

Some stuff can't be made in time..

[Furyo]

I have never had to do any crunch time. I still don't see myself ever accepting it either. Obviously I've stayed late in some very rare occasions for internal milestones, but we're talking one evening leaving at 9 instead of 6. That is totally acceptable to me, because I come from another career where what matters isn't the hours you put in but the fact that the job gets done. You get paid for getting the job done, not for coming in 40 hours a week.

And that's exactly how things are stated at Ubisoft too, and the reason why Ubisoft doesn't pay any overtime. Of course there is usually enough work that you have enough of a full plate to keep you busy for 40 hours a week, but I know there have been periods where I was not coming for these 40 hours a week, and that compensated for the little extra time I gave during PoP. That and of course, Ubisoft gives you additional days off to compensate for that overtime (since they don't pay for it). As a matter of fact I took my last remaining additional day today to have a 4 day weekend over easter

[Steppenwolf]

I'm glad that i don't have to do much crunch time at Grin and if so it's usualy compensated in a appropriate way.

I don't mind working the one or other crunch week near the end of a important milestone/project when its necessary as long as its explained to me why its necessary and i get compensated for it. This happens in every company in a lot of industries. It would bother me however if the crunch was already planned before a project starts or if it was expected from me to work overtime without compensation. That is a really bad way of treatening your employees with a lack of respect.

If the Epic guy thinks crunch time is the way to go then he is just wrong imo. It will bite him and his company in the ass earlier or later. You can only overwork your employees for so long. If they are tough guys they will only burnout after a couple of years but they will eventualy.

We have still a rather young industry with young emloyees who maybe have the energy and passion to do crunch to some degree. But things will change. 10-20 years from now the average age of the employees will be higher, more people will have families and health issues will be of bigger concern. Does Epic still want to treat its then veteran employees like work slaves then, risking their health and spoil their family lifes? And do the veteran devs themselfes actualy want to stay in a company like this for decades? I can't imagine that this work philosophy will work out for them in the long run.

Having passion for game development is one thing. A employer exploiting this passion for cheap labor is another thing. A job should be treathend as a job no matter what industry. Just because we have colorful pictures on the wall and enjoy what we do doesn't mean we have to accept exploitation.

[e-freak]

well everyone with tight deadlines should concern the valve-time. no worries then.

bit more serious: that's one huge benefit of working indy/semi-independent. as long as you can afford it no one will get you into any stress.

[mjens]

Damn, I used to stay at work for few hours more and I feel I'm really T I R E D

If you have to stay at work lately, say "No, sorry, I have my private life" (instead of when you're typical no-life living alone or with parents and have nothing to do). This will cause bad opinion of employer (if he forced you to stay and work) but it will save your creativity.

[robert.briscoe]

I agree with Hourences 100% - It's because of people like Capps that I am taking a break from it all in the coming months, crunching drove my health, motivation and sanity to the brink of despair and it's become obvious that despite what people promise you for your hard work at the end of the day it's 99% BS most of the time.

I think what really stinks is the attitude you get from 'execs' or 'management' like Capps when you complain about it: "It's a tough industry" "This is what it's like" "If you have a passion for it, it shouldnt feel like work" (or the classic "you should be paying us! har-de-ha")etc. Usually because he's sitting on his fat ass counting money and playing solitare while others do the real work.

Ah there are so many more complaints and stories I could say but I dont want to be unprofessional

[Buddy]

To sum this up, you are not getting the burning out and crunch time sensation only in these 3 situations:

- You don't work in the game biz at all - you're a farmer.

- You work at VALVe

- You're an Indie*

*with an attitude

[Furyo]

hahaha, I need to give a link to this thread over to my friends at Valve. I'm sure they'll get a laugh out of this "Valve has no crunch time" joke

[Buddy]

VALVe, IF YOU'RE READING THIS:

<3

ps. you like fishdicks?

[robert.briscoe]

Just want to add that my experience shouldnt be interpreted as a reflection of the industry as a whole, (I've had many good experiences also!) it's just the people who take such a casual attitude to think that it's o.k. to work their employees to an unpaid early grave

[Steppenwolf]

wow, just wow, something from a producer at Epic:

Crunch

“I am a believer that if you’re going to make a great game, and there is that caveat, I believe that crunch is necessary,” Fergusson says. “I believe it’s important because it means your ambition is greater than what you scheduled out. Going in with that idea that crunch is necessary means you can plan for it. It shouldn’t be a surprise. Crunch should be driven by the ambition of the team, and not the inaccuracy of the schedule.”

But he cautions that crunch should be managed by milestones, or some other regular method. “It’s a marathon, not a sprint,” he says, though realistically “It’s a marathon for a really long time, then at the end it is a sprint.”

He also believes in empathetic crunches. “If we’re going to crunch early for something, we made them teamwide. Everything can benefit from getting more done. If the artists were on schedule, then they crunched and they got ahead.” This sometimes led to more being added to the game, or simply more human resources later on. At the end of the project though, they keep crunches as small as possible, because having fewer hands on the project later helps polish.

He cautions though, that people have limits. “Working later than 2 am is a net loss. The productivity of the person who’s doing that to themselves ultimately ends us costing them at the end of that week,” he says. Epic has put a “go home law” in the company handbook as a result.

“Every crunch is different for every team,” he says. “If you’re not doing it because of mistakes in the schedule, but through planning, it’s much easier to go to your team and ask them how they want to crunch.” If they have that light at the end of the tunnel, in terms of a fixed launch date, crunch becomes much more manageable.

http://gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=22945

The company culture at Epic really seems to be a bit fucked up at this point. They are actualy planning crunches and think its something to be proud of.

With this attitude by management not a company i would want to work for no matter how good games they make.