Tanks on the streets of Los Angeles, CA?

[The Postman]

Thanks for the update Urban. I'm glad it wasn't what it seemed - that'd be a little extreme, even for this administration.

[Bic-B@ll]

gg pro troop rally attacking troops

[Duff-e]

3. If you don't have anything to add to the conversation, just flip past and don't click the reply button, simple huh?

[Urban]

gg pro troop rally attacking troops

i didnt see any attacking of the troops... but.. however i did see alot of disrespect from people standing infront of the LAV... like its their choice the troops are in iraq or something

[DanielAragon]

the thing that pisses me off is the fact that they think they have a right to choose whether or not the country goes to war...i mean if soo many people are against bush, then how did he win? dont give me that rigged election bull cuz i will slap you across the face

i know they have the right of assembly, but they dont have a right to block traffic, i mean if i dont like the was the MTA handles their buisiness, i wouldnt go upto a bus driver who has nothing to do with it and stop him from doing his job...the soldiers were sent to break up, or intimidate the rally, they didnt voulenteer or rush to offend the protestors.

[The Postman]

the thing that pisses me off is the fact that they think they have a right to choose whether or not the country goes to war...i mean if soo many people are against bush, then how did he win? dont give me that rigged election bull cuz i will slap you across the face

i know they have the right of assembly, but they dont have a right to block traffic, i mean if i dont like the was the MTA handles their buisiness, i wouldnt go upto a bus driver who has nothing to do with it and stop him from doing his job...the soldiers were sent to break up, or intimidate the rally, they didnt voulenteer or rush to offend the protestors.

Gee whiz, where to begin... where do the people of our republic come off thinking they have a voice in whether we go to war or not? Take a lesson in how our country operates, last I checked, we're very open to everyone's opinions, it's the reason that both PETA and the American Nazi Party still operate. We might disagree with them, but they're still allowed to talk.

How did Bush win? Last I checked it was a very close election, he won by 51% meaning that just short of half of this country disagreed with his leading our nation. Why else did he win? He pushed non-issues that incensed the right and those with Christian "values." Namely, abortion and gay marriage. Neither of which effect the domestic or foreign policies or outlook of our nation, yet many conservatives cling to with pitbull like tenacity.

Your "just following orders" notion works both ways. Just like the "good German" excuse for the guy that engineered the trains to the death camps of Auschwitz, he was just following orders and just doing his job. While he might not be directly responsible for the actions, he still took part and had the option to say no, albeit with consequences.

That said, you really need to educate yourself on the issues and politics on the whole. I suggest reading books from both the left and the right or even some independent sources before yammering on about slapping people.

[DD]

How did Bush win? Last I checked it was a very close election, he won by 51% meaning that just short of half of this country disagreed with his leading our nation. Why else did he win? He pushed non-issues that incensed the right and those with Christian "values." Namely, abortion and gay marriage. Neither of which effect the domestic or foreign policies or outlook of our nation, yet many conservatives cling to with pitbull like tenacity.

He won, sorry. I didn't want him to win but he won, and it's not just because he disapproves of gays and supports Christians. What Michael Moore or SA told you was probably a lie. Even if that was the WHOLE reason, which it's not, if you have to play mind control on a bunch of Christians to assure your victory then that's what you do to win.

Your "just following orders" notion works both ways. Just like the "good German" excuse for the guy that engineered the trains to the death camps of Auschwitz, he was just following orders and just doing his job. While he might not be directly responsible for the actions, he still took part and had the option to say no, albeit with consequences.

The guy driving the tank is not a Nazi and he doesn't even come close to serving Hitler. They claim to have been going to a veterans day event, and probably were, but I bet the Soldiers thought it would be funny to scare the protestors. Don't forget, soldiers aren't machines, they're people who do dumb shit for a laugh. Who knows, but what matters is that we can't be sure so it doesn't matter, therefore this thread should be locked and demonstrate that the 1st ammendment means JACK SHIT on the interwabs.

[The Postman]

He won, sorry. I didn't want him to win but he won, and it's not just because he disapproves of gays and supports Christians. What Michael Moore or SA told you was probably a lie. Even if that was the WHOLE reason, which it's not, if you have to play mind control on a bunch of Christians to assure your victory then that's what you do to win.

Did I say he didn't win? Ugh... moving on. Have I ever claimed to like Michael Moore's rhetoric? Yes, please, keep putting words in my mouth, or on my keyboard, as it were. To deny that those two non-issues played a huge roll in this election is just simple and blind. The other issue, would be the feeling that we "shouldn't switch horses in the middle of a race." But that's a little more esoteric and wasn't covered nearly as much as, I dunno, the whole ammendment against gays marrying.

The guy driving the tank is not a Nazi and he doesn't even come close to serving Hitler. They claim to have been going to a veterans day event, and probably were, but I bet the Soldiers thought it would be funny to scare the protestors. Don't forget, soldiers aren't machines, they're people who do dumb shit for a laugh. Who knows, but what matters is that we can't be sure so it doesn't matter, therefore this thread should be locked and demonstrate that the 1st ammendment means JACK SHIT on the interwabs.

Can I get that huge barfing rolleyes animation for DD missing the point of a well-used and well-traveled analogy? Next time I'll use a baker and a bakery for the analogy and it'll still ring true. Jolly good try though.

Oh and for further information, you should know that later articles had the soldiers giving the protesters thumbs up and shouting their support until several rabid idiots starting slinging insults like "babykillers!" at them. My point on the "Good German" analogy rests in a void, pinning itself to any situation in which a worker is not obligated to follow his leader, nor is he wholly absent from the responsibility his leader thrust upon him.

As per the 1st Ammendment meaning jackshit on the internet, that depends where you go. As for this forums section? It matters.

I think Walter's expression says it all:

[Vassago5kft]

Having those vehicles at an anti war rally isn't extreme one bit. The way people are acting is completely unamerican. You don't boo the president in his motorcade, or throw snowballs at his car. You might not like the man, but he IS your president. At least show some stinkin respect. During the innauguration, I saw people holding signs that said "Ill support the troops when they come home". In my opinion, that's complete ignorance, and anti-americanism. You might not agree with the war, but you MUST support our troops.

I don't agree with the war in Iraq, nor do I like Bush. I don't however, like Kerry, either. I don't think either man deserves the presidency. I'm also not the person whining about Kerry's loss, or saying I'm going to move to Canada because Bush won. I'm not scourning Bush for going to Iraq, or saying he'll end the world. Republican candidates don't moan about their loss, and demand recounts, as Democrats always seem to do (quite childish I think). And republicans always have morals in mind, rather than the important issues.

Both sides have their flaws, and both sides have their strong points. The simple fact is, you MUST support your president, AND your people. If we don't, we're no longer the United States.

[The Postman]

Having those vehicles at an anti war rally isn't extreme one bit. The way people are acting is completely unamerican. You don't boo the president in his motorcade, or throw snowballs at his car. You might not like the man, but he IS your president. At least show some stinkin respect.

He's my president, but not by my choice. In your world we should all sit idle by and do nothing. Essentially you're envisioning fascism or a cult of personality in which one strong infallible figurehead presides in a near diefied fashion without recourse. Oh and please for the love of Pete, stop slinging that stupid phrase "un-american" around. That is the worst word to be born of this whole election debacle.

During the innauguration, I saw people holding signs that said "Ill support the troops when they come home". In my opinion, that's complete ignorance, and anti-americanism. You might not agree with the war, but you MUST support our troops.

Would you rather they held signs that said "Fuck the troops" or "This war is awesome!"? I agree in full with support of our troops, but I do not support the war. The troops on the field are there because in the end, they don't have a viable choice other than imprisonment for dereliction of duty or going AWOL (but we won't get into certain presidents who did go AWOL...).

I don't agree with the war in Iraq, nor do I like Bush. I don't however, like Kerry, either. I don't think either man deserves the presidency. I'm also not the person whining about Kerry's loss, or saying I'm going to move to Canada because Bush won. I'm not scourning Bush for going to Iraq, or saying he'll end the world.

So basically you're apathetic towards the whole thing? What are you getting at here?

Republican candidates don't moan about their loss, and demand recounts, as Democrats always seem to do (quite childish I think). And republicans always have morals in mind, rather than the important issues.

I suggest you Google a search on Washington state recounts. You're full of it. Both sides demand recounts when it suits them or if there might've been foul play.

Both sides have their flaws, and both sides have their strong points. The simple fact is, you MUST support your president, AND your people. If we don't, we're no longer the United States.

No, you don't have to, that's what being an American is about. Choice. You can choose to support him or not. I don't because I think he's a lying figurehead for corporations and the religious Right. That's my opinion, and I'm allowed to have it. Respect and support is earned, not given.

The terms "un-american" and "anti-american" in reference to dissent and differing opinions on any matter of our domestic or foreign policy is the silliest, inane, and dangerously ignorant thing ever invented by the Right. The ability to disagree, assemble, and display your disapproval of what the government does is one of the founding principles of our nation.

[kleinluka]

How can you be anti-american or un-american as an American anyway? Wouldn't that mean you hate yourself?

And agreed with Postman on everything else.