Deus Ex 3

[kleinluka]

That's what I said, you press a button to engage cover mode. No getting stuck.

[dux]

I always found that being removed from first person detracts from the immersion of the game. You cease being the person and end up being a puppet master.

[Jetsetlemming]

I find that concept of "immersion" to be extremely overrated and overrepresented in importance to gamers. Personally, the only kinds of games where I've ever felt that avatar bond type of immersion are in games where your avatar really is nothing but an avatar- a customizable shell representing you. Games like CRPGs and Harvest Moon (where you actually can't customize your character but that's besides the point, when your game goal is hard manual labor you form a connection to your character ). What's important as far as REAL immersion, ie. being immersed in play, are good design and details, ie NOT BUNGIE'S COPYPASTE HALLWAY THEORY OF DESIGN, and good controls. There are elements of realism some people support that actually break immersion and entertainment due to being cheap and unfun. Having the dialogs in DX be in third person didn't hurt MY enjoyment of the game any, certainly, and there's no chance I would ever feel like Vin Deisal anyway so the use of third person in Chronicles of Riddick was pure positive.

[dux]

Go play some looking glass / irrational games and get back to me on the immersion subject

[Taylor]

Deus Next: The next installment in the long series of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" video games where nothing should be different but everything that is exactly identical also sucks.

Fan boys may be the bread and butter of this industry, but there are times when not listening to them at all should really be your first priority.

I can't even describe how irritated I feel when someone says something like that.

Seconded.

Ignoring the fan-base is clearly a stupid move, community is more important than ever and the whole point of reviving an old franchise is to expand on it capitalise off the name and existing fans. However, there is a rather bad ratio of signal to noise. It’s clear if they change anything fans will protest heavily against it, and similarly other fans and potential new customers will complain if the series does not advance on what came before it.

Fans will be complaining a lot more than they are celebrating. You could have a whole press release of good stuff in the game, but one vague sentence people don’t like will be picked out, assumed the worst of, blown out of proportion and complained about rabidly and often in a contradictory way. People are not looking for things to be excited about, they are looking for things to complain about, they are looking for evidence for their fear the game will not live up to the original – not matter how small, petty or uncertain that evidence might be. The same is true for all the recent revivals: Megaman, System Shock, Diablo, Fallout.

Something you can do to counter-act this, and something DX3 hasn't really had a chance to do yet, is turn up the fan service. The reason the Diablo 3 trailer contained Deckard Cain, the Barbarian class, and a number of in-jokes was to win over the fans. Though, of course, there was still that diatribe about the art direction...

Edit: Er.

[-HP-]

Woa, woa... Tkx for sharing that with us Klein, although I'm both happy and sad at the same time!

So, CoD like health regenaration?! ffs, I know you people at eidos had lot's of reunions about this, and came to the conclusion that, "oh well, CoD has it, Halo has it, and casual gamers like it because it facilitates the gameplay", well that's the thing, it facilitates the game and that sucks imho!

I agree with Dux, the industry has not grown towards that aspect, the industry has changed and although I obviously understand you guys want to grab the attention of other gamers apart from the hardcore fans, I don't that fact.

I know some people actually liked the exact scenario I just described but this is a decision the team made.

Fuck yeah I liked it! In DX1 there were lot's of medpacks, and It's pretty awesome to search the world for them, and somewhere on the game you get a "health regeneration" augmentation that regenerates your health in exchange of cell energy!And as you progress on the game, you can upgrade this aug so it wont waste too much energy, This my friends is a fucking RPG element, resources managing, not sit in a corner and suck on your thumb until you're at full health!

But oh well, the team has already made that decision and we'll have to live with it.

Other than that, I guess Eidos is doing a good work, judging by the community manager's words. I guess I can live with all the other aspects mentioned, including the 3rd person thingy, which is obviously made thinking about console gamers, but whatever... I especially like how he keeps on repeating "Don't worry, we have it just like DX1 and not like IW!"

[Jetsetlemming]

Go play some looking glass / irrational games and get back to me on the immersion subject

I have. The whole "Garret has a name and personality of his own, writes the mission briefings as if he's talking to you, and is shown acting independently in FMVs" thing doesn't throw you off that? The fact that you are in fact not a future hacker 200 years from now who got cyberized and fights an evil AI, or a space marine?

It's not a bad thing at all to be separate from the character you're controlling. Some games, for example the MGS series, fully embrace this. It's not a problem and it's not something that needs to be addressed and needless silly shit to increase "immersion" like taking away HUDs and not doing cutscenes and silent protagonists don't make games better for their inclusion. No matter what things the game dev makes for immersion the only time I ever feel the connection most gamers erroneously describe with the term is when I create that character myself. It's not necessary in the least to enjoy the game.

[dux]

You're letting that destroy the whole point of immersion. Immersion is nothing to do with who the character is - it's how you, as the character experience the world. And those two titles are peerless in their execution of it. Everything you do and see in those games happens to you in first person, you're never removed from it. Garrett narrates the mission because, well, it's cool! As soon as that's over with you become Garrett. And you don't need to be taken into third person for stealth, thief proved that. And well, I feel being taken out of first person in a rich detailed world which I expect DE3 to be will just break the whole atmosphere of the game for me. I never liked it in MSG, or any other game that's done it.

[Minos]

Deus Ex 3 is the new Fallout 3! Go go whining.core!

[dux]

It's great, anyone who actually says anything about the game's design choices gets labelled a whiner.

[Ginger Lord]

You must conform!

[2d-chris]

I was so immersed in Mass Effect with a 3rd person camera! Even though before playing it I had different opinions on the matter. I think any single mechanic won't screw a games experience, if the rest of them you really like.

In terms of health regen, Why not tie it to the difficulty setting? CoD4 has a hardcore mode that makes the game a little more challenging. That way you really can play the game how you want, rather than being forced down a direction.

[dux]

I'm not talking about fully 3rd person games though. I'm talking about 1st person games that remove you from that viewpoint for X reason.

[Sa74n]

missed the pics, where else can i see them?

[kleinluka]

":1h7t3j2c]

Other than that, I guess Eidos is doing a good work, judging by the community manager's words. I guess I can live with all the other aspects mentioned, including the 3rd person thingy, which is obviously made thinking about console gamers, but whatever... I especially like how he keeps on repeating "Don't worry, we have it just like DX1 and not like IW!"

3rd person isn't made "to please console gamers". The only time you go into third person is if you decide to switch into cover mode or if there's an interaction/action sequence, so you can see your character doing something cool and you get to see the awesome augmentations you have, which I personally think is a good thing and not a bad thing (you make it sound like it's a bad thing).

And I guess the reason why Rene keeps repeating and pointing out that our game keeps a lot of core features and values from DX1 as opposed to IW is because that's the truth and our hardcore fan base needs a lot of reassuring on that matter