Where are all the Level Designers?

[Furyo]

I can actually say that I've yet to work with any level designer who's had previous mod experience. And in the 2 and a half years of experience I have so far, I've already worked with at least 30 different ones. Some are architects, others used to design engineering tools, some were fresh out of design school, etc etc. One of the guys demoing PoP at E3 starting tomorrow used to print his own comic. Anything goes it seems.

Basically, if one of them has a portfolio, he works as a level artist, not a level designer.

[kleinluka]

but that's the ubisoft way... there are still a lot of companies who have the jack-of-all-trades type level designer who also models and textures his own level (ontop of designing it) ....but this is getting more rare I think...industry seems to swing more towards specialized positions these days.

[-HP-]

industry seems to swing more towards specialized positions these days.

yes, and that's both good and bad.

Good because, one has the opportunity to specialize in a single area, and since practice makes perfection, odds are that it will do a good job.

On the other hand, it's bound to be a lot more tedious job, since you'll be doing the same for quite some time on that company.

I work on a small company, we're 10 guys atm, and since we are a small team, i get to do a handful of tasks, level design, textures, models, and all the other small tasks like helping out with the in house tools. This is a very enrichful experience. but I admit I would love to work as a full time environment artist on a AAA title... We'll see!

[Zeta]

I love how wonderfully varied the role is.

[hessi]

Not having time or being able to work on personal stuff in your spare time might be a factor. But yeah since it's a specialised job you would assume that most of the guys doing it would have come from working on games in their spare time and would be hanging around the modding communities but it doesn't seem to be that way.

tbh: no single person in the company where i work has ever been part of the modding community. thats a ratio of 12:1

and i can understand why these people dont want to be a part of an online community: most of these suck ass. too many dumb asses that bitch around. hence a forum might be wasted time and effort.

[-HP-]

Truth is, you have to be specialized on something to even get a job in the games industry.

Being a jack-of-all-trades might impress your friends, but it wont impress recruiters, that's why one must have a focused portfolio.

And face it, given how large games are getting on this generation and generations to come, this kind of specialties are a "evil-needed", games are getting so huge, the tasks have to be wisely spreads within the team.

[Zeta]

Wierd. I wonder how all these guys get their first taste of game making without just walking in the door of a game studio asking for a job.

[kleinluka]

":3cnncxm9]Truth is, you have to be specialized on something to even get a job in the games industry.

Being a jack-of-all-trades might impress your friends, but it wont impress recruiters

I wouldn't say that's true... it really depends on the company. A lot of companies are still actively searching people who can do more than just one thing.

[hessi]

":jwvpgfzr]Truth is, you have to be specialized on something to even get a job in the games industry.

Being a jack-of-all-trades might impress your friends, but it wont impress recruiters

I wouldn't say that's true... it really depends on the company. A lot of companies are still actively searching people who can do more than just one thing.

especially when it comes to small companies and tight production times. if i werent busy with my degree i would probably write code too besides the regular level design, modeling, texturing work

[Furyo]

I agree it's the "paste any huge publisher/developer"'s way, not necessarily Ubisoft's. We are 130+ people on Prince of Persia, and that's just the next gen game, not the DS. With teams that size, specialization is not only something that's desirable, it's a simple organizational necessity. If people worked different jobs, nothing would ever get done because for one thing no one would ever know where to reach you.

But I agree with Zeta that the variety of tasks at hand is very enjoyable, and that can still be achieved in a game like Prince of Persia as a level designer, because it's a level design driven game. Level design drives everything else. As such, with the organization we have in place right now, level designers also interact very closely with the level artists obviously, but also the cameras team, and we do our own scripting which usually involves the programmers as well when we need something that isn't in Anvil yet because Assassin's Creed had no need for it, etc.

[Chunks]

I've run into a few devs on other forums (car forums) and they sort've had the 9-5 attitude. One was a producer and one an artist. Both were empolyed at AAA studios. I think it comes down to the fact that this is a passion/hobby for us. It is just a job for some people unfortunately.

Also interesting tidbit is that I once asked the artist-guy how he stumbled into the video game business. He said he dropped out of art school (not sure exactly what he studied), was working at an auto body shop painting cars for awhile and a friend offered him a job. I always have wondered how many people have stumbled into this business rather than sought it out.

I'm in the architecture field myself, level design/env art is just a casual hobby ( I wish I could spend more time, tbh). Not sure if I want to go the vid-game route yet, though.

[Jetsetlemming]

but that's the ubisoft way... there are still a lot of companies who have the jack-of-all-trades type level designer who also models and textures his own level (ontop of designing it) ....but this is getting more rare I think...industry seems to swing more towards specialized positions these days.

Personally, I'm thankful for that. Due to monetary restraints I've yet to even get a shot to attempt to learn how to model or texture. My next computer will actually be good enough to run 3dsmax or Maya though, and I'm looking to get a digital camera so I can try to make simple textures (I certainly can't draw them by hand Taking pictures of walls and things and cleaning them up and adding filters seems like a good way to make a texture, though).

The sheer number of times I've wishes for a specific texture or decoration and not had it because I have to rely on the standard game content and what others make and release for free is very depressing.

Edit: At least I know simplistic coding. I'm up to par for stuff like UnrealScript and Source's I/O system.

[JamesL]

I'm a bit late to the thread but I think it's a very interesting question.

In the seven and a half years I've worked in games dev, most of the designers I know have come through one of a few routes. These are:

• [*:19gn4xzg]Designers who have a computer science or equivalent degree, who wanted to work in a games development environment but didn't want to code.
  [*:19gn4xzg]Testers who paid their dues in QA then, having showed some aptitude for it, got into junior levels of design and worked their way up.
  [*:19gn4xzg]Graphic designers, product designers architects or CAD operators, who after qualifying, or working in their respective industries for a while, decided to move into games. Usually because it was a hobby in the first place.

At a guess I should say over 90% of designers I have worked with come from one of these backgrounds.

As for why these people don't post, a quick poll of the people around me here in the office gives a fairly telling answer.

"I get enough of it at work, I don't want to read forums about it too."

I guess we are in a minority. My take on it is that the people who work in the industry and have done for a while, but who still make maps outside of work and are involved in games related projects in their free time as well as professionally, these people (us) are the hardcore. We all have a little bit of the obsessive in us.

[Buddy]

We never get enough of it

[-HP-]

I guess we are in a minority. My take on it is that the people who work in the industry and have done for a while, but who still make maps outside of work and are involved in games related projects in their free time as well as professionally, these people (us) are the hardcore. We all have a little bit of the obsessive in us.

That's us, hardcore baby!