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Kokopelli

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Everything posted by Kokopelli

  1. Nice layout. I like that the CTs don't have the archetypical safe route--results in a design that has very efficient use of space and makes it unique. My main criticism is that the secret lab theme feels a bit strange and shoehorned in. I feel like you could have just made it all castle themed, but maybe that's just me. Overall, thumbs up.
  2. That was precisely my inspiration for the map! So cool you picked up on that. People keep thinking it's an oil rig (understandably), but it's actually an ocean decontamination facility. One of the objectives with the new art will be to better communicate this theme. The plant rate has been pretty decent, but I'd like to improve it even more . The fear of the long flank outside seems to encourage CTs to spread out and get early intel, which leads to pretty dynamic rounds with a lot of push and pull. CTs rarely play on the plant-zone proper (as intended), but the fear that they could be there seems to prevent Ts from just bull rushing every round. I think I've only ever played Rialto once, hah! That's interesting though. I'd have to investigate why that may be. From what I remember it's pretty open and has a good bit of height variation, so maybe it's harder for CTs to lock down vital routes/sightlines.
  3. Kokopelli

    County

    This map looks like straight fire. Absolutely brilliant work! It has SO much character and all the environments feel so fresh.
  4. New Horizons Offshore will be getting a makeover with fresh textures and models to further realize the theme and set it apart from other maps in CS:GO (ahemNUKEahem). I'll be running playtests in tandem and going through the layout with a fine tooth comb to make sure gameplay is as polished as can be. Here's a look at the current state of gameplay. Timings (Fastest timings from spawn shown above.) Design Intent One of the most common criticisms of the wingman mode is that planting the bomb doesn't matter enough. My attempt at a solution was to create a layout that encourages CTs to play outside the bombsite to maybe, just maybe, increase the rate at which bomb plants would occur and matter, without making it impossible for the CTs to defend. Sunken Bombsite To give CTs an incentive to push out of the bombsite, I came up with the idea of having a plant zone at a lower elevation than the surrounding area. (wingman_rig_v1) This was the first savefile for Offshore (formerly named Rig). As you can see, the bombsite was completely different back then. I ended up scrapping it because I didn't think there was enough mobility on-site with the big tank taking so much space. What I did like were some of the angles created by the verticality, so I iterated some more with that in mind. (wingman_rig_v2) I even tried a version with the concept in reverse: a raised plant zone, but the vertically issues were even more prevalent (although I don't think that was inherent to the idea of a raised plant zone, but rather this particular attempt.) (wingman_rig_v5) A few iterations later I was still struggling with the bombsite design, but I had developed a few other ideas I was liking. Catwalk System From the start I knew I wanted the map to have an interior section and an outdoor section based on a catwalk system. I loved the idea of having a main route high above sea level and giving players a grand view of the ocean. I intentionally designed the catwalk to be narrow to make timing and positioning really important when trying to advance. I wanted the gameplay to have an element of danger, just like the setting. (wingman_rig_v4) A Vent Like No Other While developing the catwalk section of the map, I came up with my favorite part of the map: the vent system. I needed a way for Ts to counter CTs advancing the catwalk. So I placed a vent opening across the gap below to give Ts a useful angle to hold. I liked that it also gave Ts a way to rotate to the interior section of the map. But what was even more intriguing was the fact that CTs could also jump to the vent to gain a strong flanking position against Ts playing the interior section of the map. This I knew I had to keep. (wingman_rig_v5) (wingman_rig_v13) By version 13 the vision for the bombsite was starting to come together and I had worked out most of the base structure of the map, but I was having trouble figuring out where CT spawn should be to make the timings work as I wanted. (wingman_rig_v20) I tried many different permutations of hallways on the CT side of the map to make the timings work. By version 20 I was close, but I still had some kinks to work. I wanted to break up the symmetry on the bombsite a bit more and also give CTs more mobility when playing on the upper portion of the site. (wingman_rig_v25) By version 25 I had fully arted the map and was satisfied with all the pathing and timings. (wingman_rig_v25) The addition of the upper double door entrance to the bombsite as well as the catwalks around the pillars helped give CTs some much needed mobility on the upper site. (wingman_rig_v25) Placing the CT spawn point here fixed all the timings. With a boostable stack of crates, a ladder and a stairs all within view, my hope is that players are tempted to move out of the site from the get-go. (wingman_rig_v25) This expanded upper area with the crates helped to break some of the symmetry while providing cover for players navigating this side of the upper site. (wingman_rig_v25) The window entrance into the site from mid allows a player to check each position on the upper portion of the site first. By the time they get to the door, they can begin to scan the lower section. They can also use the yellow crate to get a steeper angle into the site. And lastly, the addition of the truss detailing on the exterior allowed for the possibility of giving the Ts a jump puzzle to push into the control room. I love when art and gameplay meet in the middle.
  5. Nice! Congrats on finishing your first project. I checked it out and it looks nice—has a very pleasant mood. Gameplay looks perfectly fine too. I honestly wouldn't change much at all. Like some of the textures are low res / stretched out but it's disguised fairly well and pretty unnoticeable while playing. The stone walls could use some broken bits around the edges to give it a more natural look, but I don't know if you even want that for an aim map. I kinda like the 1.6 crispness of the angles :D.
  6. The crawl space under the bus is really cool. Love the whole vibe of the map. It has a lot of character. Nice job!
  7. UPDATE PREVIEW BALANCING CT SIDE After last week's playtest I've been working hard on refining the A site and the pathing around it. CTs were feeling overwhelmed and so the focus has been on improving defense for the CTs. What seemed to be causing the most issues for CTs was the A mid/mid connector area. For Ts, although the angles could be cleared one by one, it proved to be too impractical. But for the CTs it was even worse because they could be so easily overrun by T rushes and were punished for extending. So I closed off the entrance to connector from A mid. UPDATED RADAR: With this change, each team can now fully control a mid connector before any engagements. When CTs take control of A mid, they are rewarded with another connector to B mid for flanks/rotations. When Ts take control of A mid, they gain another entry point to A site. The same is true for B mid and B site respectively. Think this will greatly improve the dual-mid dynamic. SIGHTLINE NERF Another small but significant change was eliminating this long sightline from top of A mid to A site, which was cutting the site in half and making it real hard for CTs to rotate into the site safely. This new big piece of cover serves to block that sightline while also helping Ts find cover on the approach into the site—plus CTs can also boost up onto it to gain some interesting vantage points. BETTER DEFENSE Another focus with this update was improving CT defense on A site. I altered some of the geometry and placed two vendors stands to give both defending and attacking players better cover to work with. This helped eliminate even more long sightlines across the site. IMPROVED A SITE COVER The new vendor cart leaning against the truck creates safer plant positions for Ts. REWORKED A MAIN I rerouted the path from warehouse to A site to make it less overwhelming for CTs. Ts must now push out farther before getting visibility of the site. They are then rewarded with this cubby for pushing out. OVERHEAD VIEW
  8. Thanks all for your input. Made some gameplay improvements to the map based on reviewing demos and playtester feedback. Feeling good about these changes. I think they address the core issues and improve the logic of the map. Let's see how the next playtest goes this week. CHANGE NOTES [A SITE] Moved plant zone to truck Reworked truck shape to eliminate headshot angles when a player is on top Moved boostable propane cannisters to side of truck to eliminate headshot angle Widened A main and added boostable crates near warehouse entrance [WAREHOUSE] Forklift now boostable [MID CONNECTOR] Redesigned connector to reduce the number of sightlines visible at once when pushing to/from A-mid Rerouted to B-mid for smoother rotations [B-MID] Slightly reworked elevation to create a defined pit area Added some cover Added a trim on T stairs [B SITE] Redesigned cover on bombsite Closed off part of crypt Reworked main entrance from CT spawn Widened balcony and added some cover Balcony now fully wallbangable [T-SPAWN] Widened area in front of cathedral entrance Moved some T spawns back
  9. Just ran around this and I have to say this is very well done. The visuals are superb and I love the serene mood the lighting produces. I also like how there is just enough detail to make the environment look nice, but not cluttered. And despite having such moody lighting, visibility is great. There really is a lot of good craftsmanship on display here. In regard to the layout, it's quite unique and has good logic. The only thing that seemed a bit iffy is the area with all the stairs—seems like there are some angles were you can spot someone's feet first and that could potentially be frustrating. Lastly, I think you nailed the perfect size for a wingman map. I haven't played it with real players, but dare I say this may be the gold standard of wingman maps by virtually every metric (although I think FPS could be improved in some areas). Brilliant job!
  10. Just released the official trailer for Offshore. Check it out!
  11. Offshore is my entry to the 2020 Source Engine Wingman Mapping Contest. This map takes place on an offshore decontamination facility. Play It Now I began this project with the idea of creating a map that would support multiple games modes in which each game mode would be played on a different floor/area of the map. Eventually I scrapped that layout and decided to take the theme and build out a wingman map instead. Since a few months had already gone by since the contest was announced, my goal for this project was to leverage existing assets to create a fresh experience in an environment that hasn't been explored much. I'll get into some of the gameplay details in my next post. For now, enjoy some screenshots:
  12. If a map isn't intuitive, it's bad design. If by the end of a match players still haven't figured out where the encounters points are, it's bad design. If players need to watch a video to understand how to properly play it, it's bad design. Mark Rosewater, the lead designer of MTG coined a game design philosophy that I think applies to all types of competitive games: lenticular design. It's the idea of creating something that on the surface is seemingly simple but as players understand it more they become more complex. This approach produces designs that have depth while also creating an intuitive learning curve. In contrast your map is just outright complex and doesn't have the elegance or simplicity that you see in active duty maps. I don't think you're placing enough value on making design decisions that guide the player and set them on a path to discovering depth. The biggest issue to me is that you're giving players way too much freedom, to the point where the checks and balances of the game begin to fade away. The incredible amount of freedom players have is also what makes it so unintuitive. Players need constraints. The art is in giving them constraints that still allow for a lot of expression. I think it's also terribly misguided to chalk it all up to a lack of patience on the mapping community's part. If you think we're impatient, wait until you hear what players say. A lot of players will make their verdict within the first few rounds of playing a map for the first time. If they're dying to AWPs on rooftops halfway across the map, that's GG. It honestly doesn't feel great to see everyone pile on you like this. Seems like you put a lot of thought into your level designs, and you've probably done some good work for Halo, but you've come here with a whole lot of bravado for someone who has barely played any counter-strike. It would behoove you to play the game more if you aspire to make something that works.
  13. You really hit the nail on the head, @csWaldo . My initial impressions of the map are that it's extremely open and has too much height variance for players to manage. It all looks way too unpredictable. I imagine players will die to AWPs in really frustrating ways because they will be exposed from so many directions and at varying distances, many of which appear to be really long. The window that goes out onto the rooftop in particular seems dangerous as it exposes the player to so many angles around the entire map. Overall, there are too many angles—you're giving players a lot of freedom and choice but it's overwhelming. If you're claiming that it's possible to clear all of these angles one by one, then I have to say there are way too many angles to clear. If you compare the average number of angles to clear on any given part of your map to what you see on existing active duty maps, this is orders of magnitude higher. I also think there is too much height gradation with all the slopes. It's okay to have some but it needs to be more controlled than this or else you're introducing too many potential headshot angles. All the rooftops enable players to position themselves for headshot angles as well and it's especially problematic given how much freedom they have to move about the rooftops. Lastly, the map's design seems to give players an incredible amount of mobility. Call it breaking the mold, but to me it just breaks the CS experience.
  14. Kokopelli

    County

    Looking spicy my dude. I like the unique take on the underground areas—offers something different from the other DZ maps and folds into the theme nicely rather than being an afterthought.
  15. Looks really nice and I love the mood. Even with the dark time of day it has a very pleasant feel to it. Nice work! You should get it playtested sooner rather than later, even if you don't have all the architecture thought out. At a glance, the map seems very open with a lot of long sight lines. It reminds me of Ruby in that regard and that was one of the map's biggest problems. The road that leads to B in particular seems like a daunting approach with little cover. It's also not clear to me how utility would be used to take the site. Maybe I'm not getting the full picture but that's my impression based on the screenshots (the new and the old ones). If I could offer a word of caution, it would be to not let the realism of your theme override the need for good gameplay. That's what killed Ruby for me. Not to hate on Ruby so much—it's just such a great case study on how a map can look absolutely gorgeous and yet produce poor gameplay.
  16. Yeah, I would scrap the overcast. Your theme doesn't really demand it and bringing in some warm sunlight through all those gaps in the ceiling could look really nice.
  17. Looks cool so far. If it's important for you to have this map entered in the contest, I would just keep doing what you're doing, giving each area a rough pass until the whole map has some degree of art. Then if there's still time you can polish it up more. And of course, once the contest is over you can continue to work on it. It doesn't have to be a competition winner to be considered for future mapcore wingman hub map pools.
  18. @TheOnionChef Nice work. It definitely has that Prodigy vibe that i'm sure many will find alluring. I would milk that nostalgia as much as you can. ? Also like that you used Zion as a reference—I went camping there last year and it was beautiful. In that third screenshot with the staircase, are the areas to the sides of the staircase accessible? If they aren't, they should probably look more like they aren't. Areas that look accessible but aren't is a common complaint with players.
  19. @Soldat Du Christ Looking good so far and faithful to your first blockout. I'm interested to see how the sight lines work once it's done. One thing I would be mindful of is how the open nature of the map might affect your ability to optimize it. I know your focus right now is on layout (as it should be), but at the same time you don't want to make it impossible for whoever will be doing the art. To some degree, the limitations of the engine inform the layout. For example, in Danger Zone, since the maps are large and open, the overall quality is much simpler than on standard defuse maps. Danger Zone maps also implement heavy fog, which allows for far z clipping to further optimize. You don't really have this luxury on defuse maps since you want to keep fog to a minimum. So if there are any areas where you may potentially be rendering the entire map, that's going to be an issue. Of all the defuse maps, Nuke is probably the most detailed one with multiple elevations, but the areas are still somewhat segmented so you don't have vision across the entire map. The devs also combined props to reduce draw calls and placed occluder brushes in certain places to reduce rendering. I made a really open map before and it was really difficult to optimize once it was fully detailed. Just wanted to give you a heads up as more knowledge can help save you headaches down the road. Of course, so much of this stuff simply has to be lived and learned. ?
  20. I feel like 3kliksphilip is dead wrong when he says there is no way to plan out a DZ map and that the best way is to build it out and hope for the best. Blacksite, for example, is brilliantly built and I'll be damned if it that map wasn't thoughtfully planned out. I have 500+ wins in dangerzone and I've spent quite a bit of time analyzing the map and there is a lot to appreciate in regard to gameplay design choices. There are so many angles and cover placements with clear intention, and all designed while making the areas unique and with little repetition. The terrain elevations all make perfect sense in terms of how they limit visibility from one area to another and the whole map just flows beautiful both visually and from a gameplay perspective —it's just hard to believe it was all a shot in the dark. I'm sure many things were fine tuned, but I think they must have planned out the map in broad strokes pretty thoughtfully. Even in DZ, I think you still want to design with the mindset of having a fair degree of predictability. Players are generally going to have more choices by virtue of the fact that it's a more open map, but I think the designer should still show restraint and make choices with clear intention to avoid complete chaos. This is my biggest criticism of Jungle—it doesn't feel like it was planned for Dangerzone gameplay at all, but rather aimed to capture an environment first and foremost. This was most evident with all the porous buildings, open yet inaccessible windows, sparse cover placement and repetitive locations. I haven't had a chance to play around Frostbite yet, but I'm eager to check it out and provide some feedback. I dig the Ski resort theme. Congrats on the release!
  21. Let's say you have five CTs in the positions above. As I'm approaching from the tunnel I'm hugging the right wall so I can engage a player playing the back of the site without being exposed to any other angles. When I get here, I can get a narrow peak at a player playing behind the stack on site. As I continue forward, I begin hugging the left side of the tunnel as I sweep right to clear each angle on site one by one. Before stepping outside the tunnel, I look up to check for a CT playing on top of this stack. While I'm checking that stack I'm still inside the tunnel and not exposed to the CT playing the corner on the left. Then I check that corner. Next, I press up against the stack so I can again check for a player playing the stack on the bombsite. After that I check car. Then deep in the cubby. And finally directly behind the stack.
  22. @FMPONE @blackdog @Vaya @Lizard @Minos Thanks for all the feedback guys, you make good points. I haven't played too much with the skybox/lighting yet as I've been mainly focused on the layout, but I definitely would like to give it some love to make the map really stand out. The current lighting is the way it is because I do understand that players are psychologically drawn to brighter maps and visibility is such a big factor in how enjoyable the experience is, so I kept it simple. I hope to find a way to make it distinct without giving players any added anxiety or frustration. When do you guys find yourselves playing around with lighting the most? During blockout? During art pass? Or is it persistent throughout development? @Minos Thanks for sharing those resources! I'll will look into them further. @Radu What did you use to make your skybox for Chlorine? It is a lovely one indeed. Going to schedule a playtest for next weekend.
  23. Responding to some of your points from the last thread to hopefully move the conversation here. I don't think this is true. Most choke points are designed in a way that allows players to methodically check corners one by one. On Dust 2, the only spot where you're forced to take a 50/50 gamble is double doors on long as T (and I'd say it's the most egregious chokepoint of all the maps in the competitive pool). Every other chokepoint allows you to peak corners in a sequential manner. I don't think any map denies a player the ability to play without utility, but rather allows for enhanced play when it is used. A site on Mirage is probably the hardest to play without any utility but you can still clear each angle one by one if you know how. Overpass is a good example of a map that allows you to play without utility. The angles are really well designed for that, and yet it is considered one of the most tactical maps and is greatly enhanced by the usage of utility. I would argue this is what makes an e-sport an e-sport. What makes people appreciate a player's skill is how they are able to anticipate situations and recall their knowledge of the environment and the game's mechanics to overcome an opponent. There needs to be a certain amount of predictability to make that possible. It's the idea of mastery that hooks people onto e-sports and sports for that matter. I definitely believe we can find new ways to increase map depth without adding too much complexity and therefore unpredictability. But it's also important to realize that the derogatory way you've framed the game is precisely why people respect it. Dust 2 is the map layout that defined how Counter-strike is played but it's also a true relic. The engine 1.6 was built on basically required maps to be heavily segmented because of its limitations. And to some degree, maps still have to be built this way, but there is a lot more freedom now. The bigger argument for segmentation is you need teams to have to take gambles. There needs to be risk/reward for the pathing choices you make at any point during a round, so you have to be careful with how much visual intel you afford players. CTs should have to take some risks with their positioning. They can position themselves more favorably by pushing for map control and using process of elimination, as well as using sound cues to predict movement. I don't think it's fair to say designers here aren't thinking outside of the box so much as they are respecting the fundamental principles of how the game is played. I'm not saying we have it all figured out either. I think this is something to explore, but keep in mind every sight line is effectively another corner to check. If you've designed a tower for CTs to gain sight of a T across the map, that T has to know to check that tower window every time they cross X location as well as any other corner they already have to check along the path they are walking. You know what's not Dust 2? Train, Nuke, Overpass, Cache, Inferno, Vertigo, Canals and every entry from the last Mapcore competition. If you consider all of those dust 2, I think you're wishing for CS to be something it's not. On that note, I'm curious to see what ideas you come up with. I do believe there is a lot more room for exploration.
  24. Updated video tour of the map.
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