Jump to content

Soldat Du Christ

Members
  • Content Count

    85
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    1

Everything posted by Soldat Du Christ

  1. I updated the water and mini map, new pictures on the OP, the update is still pending on workshop though Bots still crash the game when you try to play defuse, but i tried playing Victorian on the deathmatch game mode and you guys are right, its alot of fun
  2. I don't want you guys to think I'm not listening, or that I'm dismissing all your feedback. There where some good points you guys have made about the map. I think while I achieved some of my goals in certain categories, I overlooked more subtle aspects of the game, like @Roald made a good observation about how the lack of negative space can make footsteps more of a presence on the map. Pretty much everyone has made a comment that the map is unintuitive, which, according the the standards of what you guys expect, I can understand, and even agree that is a negative about the map. And obviously the water sucks the way players can wade really far out with a sniper and get lots of angles, I'm still trying to find the best solution to the problem without sacrificing what it was intended for (negating fall damage and providing a sense of place) and @csWaldo pointed out that because of the open-ness, flashbangs are more powerful & annoying These are all unintentional features that i'll admit are negatives about the map On the other hand, a lot of objections you guys have made are premature, and in some cases objectively wrong. So many complaints about there being to many angles to worry about, only because you don't know which ones you don't have to worry about. During the test, I noticed everyone was looking at spots they had no reason to worry about because it was still the beginning of the match and it would have been impossible for enemy targets to be at the angles they where checking. The players didn't even know where the first encounters were. You can keep beating it into my head that these are symptoms of how unintuitive the map is and I will KEEP AGREEING WITH YOU FOR THE HUNDRETH TIME. But what is not okay, is coming to conclusions so early when it's painfully obvious you haven't figured it out yet. You guys are free to dismiss the map if you don't care enough to put any more effort into figuring it out, I will continue to listen to all your points and see if I can improve my map based on your feedback @blackdog I hate having to keep explaining and defending my intentions, I've already expressed several times what my goals where. It's a little bit of everything, but mostly because I like to try and push boundaries and inspire others. Most people try to make maps for what they already know the community likes, and wants. I want to be the guy that makes a map you NEVER KNEW you wanted. Usually these people are in the minority, and i'm okay with that
  3. @csWaldo There are two kinds of information gathering skills, deduction which gives you knowledge, and induction which gives you varying probabilities. At the beginning of a defuse round, both teams competing at the highest level of play will know where the soonest possible engagements can happen around the map, If there is no enemy target at this location where they would expect them to be, they can begin to deduct positions 1 by one as they move around the map. This is the player exercising their deductive skills. The more players alive on your team, the more information you have. However, as the match progresses, team members die, time passes and you will now be forced to lean on your inductive skills, making educated guesses as to where enemy target may be. Either because you are alone moving into a bomb site to arm and you don't have information because your teammates have died, or lost track of the enemy. This degenerative process begins as soon as both teams engage and the amount of information gatherers thins out and all of a sudden 1/3 of the map is left unobserved Now, getting to my point; where exactly educated guessing turns from a valuable skill into a "game if chance" is hard to pinpoint. While most of us will probably agree that having more information so that players can make better informed decisions is a good thing, at what percentage does it become a gamble? this is semantical and not worth digging into, but I wanted to point out that induction is a core skill of CS as well as any competitive game, just because there are situations where you will have to make educated guesses does not mean it is a fault. The degree to how much you will have to use your inductive skills in Victorian may be higher than other maps, but it still has all the same core features you listed in your post. Victorian will have players exercising all the same skills they are used to when playing vanilla maps. A lot of the positions you see around the map have to be EARNED. Terrorists can't get on the warehouse rooftops without smoking the double doors at the bridge, and even then they will be putting their backs to the CTs defending the bridge because of the way I positioned the ladder to line up with a certain angle on the bridge. terrorists cant get access to the apartment rooftops without sacrificing some valuable travel time at the beginning of a match, and they will have to break open a window which acts as a audio que for CTs on the docks below. Right now all of your objections, and the communities objections by extensions seem to stem from the simple lack of comfortability because you don't know the key engagements yet, you don't know that CTs can throw an incendiary at the Ts alley way exit which buys you and your team enough time to set up around their exits, your team composition on the map hasn't developed enough to feel comfortable with the information they provide and as a result everything FEELS like a risk. Just study the map, learn the key engagements, try to find exploits and than think of ways they could be countered, use your brain, this map isn't going to hold your hand, that much is clear even by looking at the early pictures and ive even disclaimed this myself several times, its not very intuitive, but that doesn't mean its irredeemable, only that you may not have to patience to find those redeeming qualities.
  4. I completely agree that intuition is a valuable goal one should strive for when designing maps, and i wouldn't blame someone for critiquing that about Victorian, it's a valid point. I want the mapping community to try and put aside their conventional CS wisdom for this map, and suffer through the initial learning curve to try and see what this map has to offer, challenge yourself to rethink the rules that are generally considered a given. There are a lot of redeeming qualities to be found here, just keep an open mind going in to it
  5. @Roald I overlooked the sound aspect so im sure you have a point there, but I definitely took predictability seriously when designing that map, that's a universal value when designing any competitive multiplayer space, not just cs. I think the real problem is that you don't know where to expect players (yet) and because of that lack of knowledge you assume they could be anywhere. Also, players have complete control over which lines of sight they expose themselves to, you should be able to isolate encounters and move through the map checking one spot after another like you would any other map. If you could give specific examples i would happy to explain where you misunderstood, or where you may be right.
  6. Soldat Du Christ

    de_Victorian

    V I C T O R I A N V 1.0 Workshop link: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2236306765 Set among the crossroads of 1830s Industrial Revolution! Civility & Industry clash in this glorious theme park of Architecture & Landmarks! This map was built from the ground up for a Balanced Competitive 5v5 Experience, a challenge for myself, and a challenge to the community to re-think what a Defuse map has the potential to be. Huge thank you to everyone in MapCore who has helped me bring this map to it's current playable state, I couldn't have done it without your help. This has been the most responsive and supportive community I have yet to be a part of. I only hope this patience carries over into your playtests, you will need 10 fold to suffer through the learning curve on this one! Victorian very much aims to push the limits of what is traditionally accepted as being competitively viable, for better or worse. Your opinions are welcome, but If you want to help me improve the map, I'm looking for objective flaws... Objective Examples: "This angle/position has no counter" "this set up is too hard to break" "X needs more polish" Subjective Examples: "This isn't what CS players/ I like" "I'm not used to doing X therefore it's bad" No matter what, I just hope at the very least Victorian could inspire others to take their designs further and push the limits. I'm currently working on "The making of: de_Victorian" Design Documentary, so look forward to that! For the full canonical history of de_Victorians development which goes as far back as the 2019 mapping contest, follow these links:
  7. I know i'm late, but i wanted to say i love your map, came across it today and downloaded it on a whim, really cool design decisions going on here, i love the path you can take from mid overlooking A site, and T spawn
  8. Soldat Du Christ

    County

    But is it snapped to the grid tho?
  9. What tool do you use to make the top down image? Nice and clean and updates:
  10. Put in lots of work today, getting close!
  11. I took a break from my csgo map because inspiration hit me and i just couldn't help myself, i had to make this beauty in halo forge, it's called Fantasia and is inspires by Ori and the will of the wisps, and a stage in ssbm fountain of dreams
  12. I feel like after hours of trying to get it right, im stopped dead in my tracks just trying to build the non-grid segments of my map... The parts of the map that fit neatly onto a grid i got done no problem, but i'm having a hard time getting the proportions correct and to line things up nicely. Is there any way to snap objects together with their corners? And not the grid? Like vertex snap or something?
  13. @Kokopelli yeah... i've heard alot about that over time, i never really considered it when making the blockout and at this point not willing compromise on the layout, it is what it is
  14. first day progress, focusing on the east grid side of the map before implementing the more organic lanes
  15. If you add a position in your map that is designed to give players a unique option, but fail to make earning that position worth while, then the position and all the depth it has to offer might as well not exist because it is too risky vs the reward you can get out of it. Balancing the travel time to certain positions, lines of sight that you can use while your there, how vulnerable the position is from other areas around the map, etc, all factor into whether or mot a position is viable. The more positions you have that are balenced, the more depth that is added to your map, from the micro to the macro. On your note about "entertainment" wether or players enjoy a map or not can be based on their fleeting emotions, which could continue to fluctuate as they begin to understand a map more. Some people like to fight against all odds because it feeds into their ego, they find that fun. Some just want to accurately test their mechanical skills on simple maps where map depth takes a back seat. Some people thirst for more than the base mechanics and the traditional depth maps have had to offer and want more elaborate playspaces. While peoples idea of fun will change from person to person, what makes a map balanced and have depth are objectively measurable qualities. In the case of CSGO where teams switch between offense and defense like @Vilham said, you don't even have to have both sides perfectly balanced because as long as long as both teams have a chance it is fair game. But having individual positions be worthless is a sad missed opportunity caused by poor balence
  16. When it comes to competitive play, maps are only as deep as they are balanced, which makes both equally important. In my case i want to build a very unique map which welcomes complexity and has a learning curve, which implies it is harder to balance, much more so than a simple map.
  17. Bravo! I completely agree, that is the tragedy of any competitive game with a map maker editor, you could pretty much say the same thing about halo, the players just want lockout/ gaurdian/ midship remix's all day. I'm prepared for the csgo audience to not like my map, or at most they find it interesting and play it casually even though I designed it with the upmost care for competitive play. I'm sure that there have been some ambitious directions taken with level designs for CSGO and it wasn't right of me to make fun of the repetitive maps we see coming and going, because like you said, they are just giving the players what they want. I think if the map contests here where tested more thoroughly, where the judges and players are forced to give more ambitious maps a chance to figure out, there would be a higher chance that a map such as mine (for example) could place highly in the contest and maybe we would see more of a shift in new directions. This was my goal when i first started the map way back at the beginning of the contest, to make a unique map and make it balanced enough to be taken seriously and hopefully get everyone to follow through after me. At this point i pursue primarily for my own closure and to expand my experience, but i also hope the map could serve as the ultimate example of a unique and complex map done right for future generations. That depends on how balanced I can make it. I guess we will have to see! *shrug* You can't deduct wether or not players are in those further back positions unless they choose to reveal themselves and challenge you. Even if you progress in the most optimal way possible as you have suggested, you have no idea if there are enemies hiding behind those pieces of cover, they will peak out at their own discretion, not conveniently when you choose to look at them
  18. I was very disappointed after the gameplay reveal, that's what 343 did with a $500 Million dollars and 5 years of development? I just hope Forge is good
×
×
  • Create New...