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Soldat Du Christ

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Soldat Du Christ last won the day on January 1 2019

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  1. I updated the water and mini map, new pictures on the OP, the update is still pending on workshop though Bots still crash the game when you try to play defuse, but i tried playing Victorian on the deathmatch game mode and you guys are right, its alot of fun
  2. I don't want you guys to think I'm not listening, or that I'm dismissing all your feedback. There where some good points you guys have made about the map. I think while I achieved some of my goals in certain categories, I overlooked more subtle aspects of the game, like @Roald made a good observation about how the lack of negative space can make footsteps more of a presence on the map. Pretty much everyone has made a comment that the map is unintuitive, which, according the the standards of what you guys expect, I can understand, and even agree that is a negative about the map. And obviously the water sucks the way players can wade really far out with a sniper and get lots of angles, I'm still trying to find the best solution to the problem without sacrificing what it was intended for (negating fall damage and providing a sense of place) and @csWaldo pointed out that because of the open-ness, flashbangs are more powerful & annoying These are all unintentional features that i'll admit are negatives about the map On the other hand, a lot of objections you guys have made are premature, and in some cases objectively wrong. So many complaints about there being to many angles to worry about, only because you don't know which ones you don't have to worry about. During the test, I noticed everyone was looking at spots they had no reason to worry about because it was still the beginning of the match and it would have been impossible for enemy targets to be at the angles they where checking. The players didn't even know where the first encounters were. You can keep beating it into my head that these are symptoms of how unintuitive the map is and I will KEEP AGREEING WITH YOU FOR THE HUNDRETH TIME. But what is not okay, is coming to conclusions so early when it's painfully obvious you haven't figured it out yet. You guys are free to dismiss the map if you don't care enough to put any more effort into figuring it out, I will continue to listen to all your points and see if I can improve my map based on your feedback @blackdog I hate having to keep explaining and defending my intentions, I've already expressed several times what my goals where. It's a little bit of everything, but mostly because I like to try and push boundaries and inspire others. Most people try to make maps for what they already know the community likes, and wants. I want to be the guy that makes a map you NEVER KNEW you wanted. Usually these people are in the minority, and i'm okay with that
  3. @csWaldo There are two kinds of information gathering skills, deduction which gives you knowledge, and induction which gives you varying probabilities. At the beginning of a defuse round, both teams competing at the highest level of play will know where the soonest possible engagements can happen around the map, If there is no enemy target at this location where they would expect them to be, they can begin to deduct positions 1 by one as they move around the map. This is the player exercising their deductive skills. The more players alive on your team, the more information you have. However, as the match progresses, team members die, time passes and you will now be forced to lean on your inductive skills, making educated guesses as to where enemy target may be. Either because you are alone moving into a bomb site to arm and you don't have information because your teammates have died, or lost track of the enemy. This degenerative process begins as soon as both teams engage and the amount of information gatherers thins out and all of a sudden 1/3 of the map is left unobserved Now, getting to my point; where exactly educated guessing turns from a valuable skill into a "game if chance" is hard to pinpoint. While most of us will probably agree that having more information so that players can make better informed decisions is a good thing, at what percentage does it become a gamble? this is semantical and not worth digging into, but I wanted to point out that induction is a core skill of CS as well as any competitive game, just because there are situations where you will have to make educated guesses does not mean it is a fault. The degree to how much you will have to use your inductive skills in Victorian may be higher than other maps, but it still has all the same core features you listed in your post. Victorian will have players exercising all the same skills they are used to when playing vanilla maps. A lot of the positions you see around the map have to be EARNED. Terrorists can't get on the warehouse rooftops without smoking the double doors at the bridge, and even then they will be putting their backs to the CTs defending the bridge because of the way I positioned the ladder to line up with a certain angle on the bridge. terrorists cant get access to the apartment rooftops without sacrificing some valuable travel time at the beginning of a match, and they will have to break open a window which acts as a audio que for CTs on the docks below. Right now all of your objections, and the communities objections by extensions seem to stem from the simple lack of comfortability because you don't know the key engagements yet, you don't know that CTs can throw an incendiary at the Ts alley way exit which buys you and your team enough time to set up around their exits, your team composition on the map hasn't developed enough to feel comfortable with the information they provide and as a result everything FEELS like a risk. Just study the map, learn the key engagements, try to find exploits and than think of ways they could be countered, use your brain, this map isn't going to hold your hand, that much is clear even by looking at the early pictures and ive even disclaimed this myself several times, its not very intuitive, but that doesn't mean its irredeemable, only that you may not have to patience to find those redeeming qualities.
  4. I completely agree that intuition is a valuable goal one should strive for when designing maps, and i wouldn't blame someone for critiquing that about Victorian, it's a valid point. I want the mapping community to try and put aside their conventional CS wisdom for this map, and suffer through the initial learning curve to try and see what this map has to offer, challenge yourself to rethink the rules that are generally considered a given. There are a lot of redeeming qualities to be found here, just keep an open mind going in to it
  5. @Roald I overlooked the sound aspect so im sure you have a point there, but I definitely took predictability seriously when designing that map, that's a universal value when designing any competitive multiplayer space, not just cs. I think the real problem is that you don't know where to expect players (yet) and because of that lack of knowledge you assume they could be anywhere. Also, players have complete control over which lines of sight they expose themselves to, you should be able to isolate encounters and move through the map checking one spot after another like you would any other map. If you could give specific examples i would happy to explain where you misunderstood, or where you may be right.
  6. Soldat Du Christ

    de_Victorian

    V I C T O R I A N V 1.0 Workshop link: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2236306765 Set among the crossroads of 1830s Industrial Revolution! Civility & Industry clash in this glorious theme park of Architecture & Landmarks! This map was built from the ground up for a Balanced Competitive 5v5 Experience, a challenge for myself, and a challenge to the community to re-think what a Defuse map has the potential to be. Huge thank you to everyone in MapCore who has helped me bring this map to it's current playable state, I couldn't have done it without your help. This has been the most responsive and supportive community I have yet to be a part of. I only hope this patience carries over into your playtests, you will need 10 fold to suffer through the learning curve on this one! Victorian very much aims to push the limits of what is traditionally accepted as being competitively viable, for better or worse. Your opinions are welcome, but If you want to help me improve the map, I'm looking for objective flaws... Objective Examples: "This angle/position has no counter" "this set up is too hard to break" "X needs more polish" Subjective Examples: "This isn't what CS players/ I like" "I'm not used to doing X therefore it's bad" No matter what, I just hope at the very least Victorian could inspire others to take their designs further and push the limits. I'm currently working on "The making of: de_Victorian" Design Documentary, so look forward to that! For the full canonical history of de_Victorians development which goes as far back as the 2019 mapping contest, follow these links:
  7. I know i'm late, but i wanted to say i love your map, came across it today and downloaded it on a whim, really cool design decisions going on here, i love the path you can take from mid overlooking A site, and T spawn
  8. Soldat Du Christ

    County

    But is it snapped to the grid tho?
  9. What tool do you use to make the top down image? Nice and clean and updates:
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