The Postman

All of us Gearbox folks (past and present) have probably pulled up the numbers for the "11-14" section.

And asked who is the more richer and more powerful country the European Socialists or the United States of America, I know where I stand.

Yeah, we have more weapons and two oceans on either side. Of course we're more powerful. Richer? I think some European nations would like to have a word with you. If you're going with landmass to wealth ratio anyhow

First thing wrong with france is the fact that the Gaul's are just a newer friendlier version of the Nazi party. Extreame nationalism, socialism and a strong anti-semetic bias, sounds like fascism to me.

Also about the poor. I was born in poverty, and grew up in poverty. I can say we don't and never wanted hand outs, hand outs don't help. Help is appreciated, but the vast majority of us wantv to be able to take care of ourselves. Suffer from lack of an edgucation, edgucate yourself, I did.

Suffer from injury and illness, heal yourself, i did. The thing about socialism is that, in a socialistic world it is assumed that I am hopeless, incapible of improving my own lot, so programs are instituted to house me, feed me, and heal me, with everyone else paying for it. Do you know how depricating it is to be on welfare? How hard it is to get off of it?

I no longer live in abject poverty, Yeah, I'm hardley rich, but in a socialist world I could never get as far as I have. Also, without hardship, their is rarely aney motivation to change ones lot. Communism, and socialism are simular in that, both breed stagnation.

Where to begin. First off, suggesting that France, of all countries, is facist is a bit of a farce. There's no strong central leader with incredible charsima. If you want to talk ignorant nationalism and anti-semitism, you really need to hit up the Southern United States. We're bubbling with it.

As per the poor not wanting handouts? I think the welfare system would like to have a talk with you. You overcame to some degree? Great, kudos on a job well done. By and large poverty breeds stagnation, either through bad personal habits acquired from the area in which you live, or because of a lack of willpower or perhaps belief that a higher power will give them a nice life after they die (giving up before you're even out the gates).

Socialism, I don't believe breeds stagnation. Communism, however does, but for different reasons than you listed. A system of trade and industry cannot flourish under a system in which abuse is so easy to spawn. Capitalism at least takes our lesser qualities (greed, slothe, pride etc) and puts them to good use. Socialism is still democracy, and is still capitalism to a certain extent, only less-so. Check out some modern European nations if you want examples.

As per self education, I hate to engage in a personal attack Tepp, but man, you even managed to mispell "education."

Explain to me again, what's so bad about France?

I really don't get why most Americans seem to hate France.

From Green Day - Holiday:

Sieg Heil to the president gasman

Bombs away is your punishment

Pulverize the Eiffel towers

Who criticize your government

Bang bang goes the broken glass man

Kill all the fags that don't agree

Trials by fire, setting fire

Is not a way that's meant for me

Just cause, just cause, because we're outlaws yeah!

ololo I dunno, I just get strange ideas.

Stolve, stay in EOT man.

No.

well.. more power to them then... let them die at the end of a american made m16... if they wanna die so bad.. why is UBL hiding?

You really have no idea do you. A martyr is replaced almsot instantly by 3+ more people who see his deeds as brave. How do you think Christianity got so damned big?

Want to squelch a following? Lock 'em in a windowless room and don't talk about them for a couple generations.

THIS THREAD IS NOW ABOUT REALLY BIG PICTURES OF CATS:

zilla has no sense of humor

Zilla is spot on, and a poignant voice of clarity in this recovering thread

Teppesh, not to say you sound like a moron for comparing Democrats with Communists. But yes, you sound like a moron for comparing Democrats with Communists. Just like Republicans are Nazis, am I right? :roll:

Also, it's spelled "ballot" not "ballet," we're not going to a dance.

Edit: Tonight is the night of the second debate. If I'm not mistaken.

For those that want it concise:

10/05/04 @ 8pm CST / 9pm EST

Edwards/Cheney debate

http://www.mayang.com/textures/

Valuable place to go to. But I second Ferret's comment. All non-texture posts after this one will be deleted.

I assume it's on at 8pm CST/9pm EST on all the major networks (I watch it on PBS because it's largely commercial free)

Talking it over with my pinko commie cohorts last night we figured that Cheney could very well lose these debates. Now, before you swallow your tongue in an effort to suck in more air for a volumous bellow, hear me out.

1. Cheney isn't liked by a good portion of the population. He's seen as sneaky, and kind of a weasel. Deny it if you will, but hey, the country is split 50%-50%, so it has merit.

2. Cheney might come off with too many personal attacks, making him seem too volatile, while I'm certain Edwards will remain a smiling golden-boy during the entire thing. That contrast will really make things interesting, because Cheney, in the past, has been pretty volatile with the public, and in the media.

3. Edwards is a defense trial lawyer. A good one at that. Prattle on with Republican party rhetoric all you want about "hurr hurr ambulance chaser, lmao!~~~" but in all seriousness, it means he's pretty quick on his feet. If he remains positive and keeps a calm, cool demeanor he could very well come out on top.

4. Halliburton. I know Urban already mentioned that they got a no-bid contract under Clinton, but well, I looked into it a bit more, and so did a few other companies, and never as much as today with Halliburton leading our country's no-bid hires at the #1 spot. Cheney received a $173,000 gift from them as well. If this gets into the debates at all it will hurt Cheney's credibility amongst the viewers. Even having to explain it makes him look less than honest.

5. Coming off the wave of success from Kerry/Bush's debate last week, Edwards already has a promising start. If he can keep that momentum, then he can pull it off.

However, things could go bad for Edwards. He's already seen as the weaker VP out of the partisan duos - for reasons of his lack of experience. Cheney has no lack of debate and public speaking skills, like the president, if Cheney can keep it toned down and not go after Edwards in an overtly personal sense or come off too mean, he could very well bury Edwards.

Cheney could also frequently cite Edward's lack of experience. Even if Edwards keeps explaining it away, it will be a nasty after taste in the mouths of viewers.

My pre-debate guess? A victory for Edwards, he'll be on the defense going in, but given his profession, he'll be in his element.

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck steam, in the most sincere of words. I want product. I want CDs and I want to be able to uninstall, delete and wipe the game from my system and have the instant and ready option of being able to always re-install it, regardless of internet connection.

not nixon.. i think it was.

That's because Nixon was a sexy beast.

Very delicious. If you chaps make a spiritual successor to the Fallout series you'll have won my undying devotion.

Meh, they all get dolled up for photo ops, it's pretty standard.

Oh Faux News, is there anything you won't skew?

Turns out all that noise about Kerry proclaiming himself a "metrosexual" was a bunch of made up BS, oops. Looks like CBS has company.

In all fairness, Bush supporters have done equally evil shit. On I35 around here a guy was driving some economy car shitwagon with an anti-Bush bumpersticker and a large SUV ran him off the road into a construction area while honking and flipping him off. The judge that handled the case fined them both because he said that the bumpersticker was "meant to encite the public and that he should be more careful in the future." Furthermore, I've noticed all over Dallas various forms of defacement of Democratic signage. From kicked down signs to completely destroyed or burned ones.

Both sides are getting a little too damned overzealous.

I like you Insta.

edit: http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/news/WABC_100304_middleschoolteacher.html WTF!~

WTF indeed. That's royally fucked up.

hey, i liked that scream.. made a good sound byte for talk radio

for those who havent heard it... here

hes so in-touch with the common man

And for those of you who would like a more festive party mix of the Scream Heard 'Round the World, get it here.

Yeah, and having a dad who was president, head of the CIA, and consulate to Japan makes you a regular run-of-the-mill, good-ol-boy, down-home, everyman. Come on

Now now, both sides pulled rather dirty tricks. Telling african americans they'd get arrested at polls, telling people that "liberals" hate Jesus and the bible.

The sad fact is that Kerry is very un-electable. He's too...rigid, I suppose. Too much a politician, in the non-believable way. The fact that his main power base comes from the anyone-but-Bush 50% of this country says little for the man, or well, our democracy. I really think a combination of Dean and Clark would've been a lot more electable. Dean pre-scream that is. That really hurt his image almost irrevocably I think - which is sad considering how good I think he could be doing.

glad this election is about the war... not so glad its about the one that happend 30+ years ago :/

same people that are calling bush awol and all this other crap and are parading around kerry as a war hero... are the same people that defended draft dodging clinton... so.. if being a president means you need military service... why did dole lose? hell hes a true war hero imho

Compleeeeeeeeete agreeance. Why Vietnam service was brought up in this election - let alone made a major point of focus - just blows my mind. It has no bearing on anything, at all. I think that focusing on it has really hurt Kerry's campaign a lot - especially since he's been focusing on damage control for his past actions instead of campaigning.

If you think Kerry is fiscaly conservative either Postman you're ignorant. Its a fact that his domestic spending plans will either put the deficit deeper or simply keep it at where its at. The difference is Kerry just wants to spend money, where as Bush was trying to boost the economy by using a "loan" strategy.

Furthermore your little comment on the rich is bullshit. The top like 2% of the country pays for 60% of the country's taxes. So there is no reason why they shouldn't get some money back. Furthermore I've never been employed by a poor person, but I have by a rich person. So i'd rather have the people who know how to run business, have more money, so they can hire more people. Oh wait, this looks like a good fucking idea, nice job bush! (reagan)

Did I ever suggest that Kerry is fiscally conservative? As a democrat of course he isn't. You call me ignorant? Get your partisan politics straight before you start mouthing off. I'd rather funnel money into our own nation than the money-pit that Iraq is becoming, but we can't do that. We need to stay there until it's done.

My comment on the rich? 60%? Where are you getting your numbers? Sounds like they're coming from the land of bullshit myself. Back that up and you'll have my apologies. My problem isn't so much a class war as it is that the tax cut takes advantage of how stupid a lot of the poor are. They see this wad of cash - "Oh boy, $300!" - and go "Hot damn, he's got mah vote!" It plays on the ignorant. Actually, that point's moot since a good portion of both campaigns has been an attempt to rope in the ignorant and ill-informed. "Flip-flop" and "No Blood for Oil" idiots rejoice! :roll:

Back on track though. Mikey's made some very good points. Especially with the clouding instead of clearing notion. I don't think anything new was particularly said. Although many of the swing states are finally steadying (Bush favor btw, latest prediction a win with 296 electoral votes), I almost think at this point the debates are without need. The country is very heatedly divided (as this thread certainly shows) and everyone's already chosen their side, will the debates swing anyone? That's a good question.

Bush defeated Kerry, its as simple as that

RD, Kerry whomped on Bush in the debates simply by being a better public speaker, not repeating himself verbatim nearly as much and actually answering more questions instead of dodging them.

Teppesh, I did watch the debates, I also read the transcripts. I think that Kerry won them, and so does a good 57% of the population. So you and Teppesh can go back to grumbling about the loss.

That is unless you like higher taxes, and believe that he can raise trillions of dollars from the rich, to both support the war and fund the

myriad of domestic programs he supports.

Yeah, sure. I believe it.

First off, don't even try to claim Bush is fiscally conservative. Enjoy your deficit. The tax cut that you cherish so much doesn't necessarily save you any money and is primarily for the rich. Good job slinging the "omg democrats raise taxes!!!!" though. Where do you think that money comes from anyhow? The magical money tree that grows on Sugar Mountain? Come on. Get some knowledge on policies and actual followthrough and then come back to this conversation.

it makes me happy that ferret isnt some liberal art loving cry boy

Second warning Duffy, one more and you're banned. Got me?

its pretty funny how most people that read the debate.. think dubya did better.. or listened to it even... i guess the polls show people prefer style over substance... maybe we deserve john "hanoi" kerry...

First and foremost, come off it witht he "hanoi" Kerry bullshit. You sure as shit weren't in Vietnam, and you have no right to go after him in the way perhaps our fathers can. He came back, made his opinions known when that kind of opinion wasn't (and perhaps still isn't) very popular. Different war. Different time. Doesn't reflect whatsoever on the current situation. Your opinion of the debates reeks of personal favor to Bush. If Bush wins the election (fairly ) I'll be "hey, okay, that's what the American people want, and that's what they deserve." Not spouting rhetoric and yammering on using party slogans.

As for "style over substance." If by substance you mean name dropping, and repeating one's self like a windup toy, then by all means, substance won the day. However I think Kerry won the debate by being clearer in his ideas and not dodging nearly half as many questions as Bush did. Will this debate win him the election? Doubtfully. His campaign is run too poorly for that. I still don't especially like the man, but I came away from the debates a little bit more sure of him as a commander in chief.

Hi Duffy, don't turn this into a flamewar 1st warning.

yeah, you might get your account deleted or most of your posts edited

and then claim you are the one trying to censor their speech

Get over yourself Urban.

Why won't the world let these star-crossed lovers be together? Stay tuned for the next episode of As the Election Turns.