Fletch

There's a flaw in that logic. The town Mike and I come from is fairly affluent, and we have a high quality high school. At the same time, there is an apartment complex across the street from that high school that has some extremely poor people living there. Now those students are poor, but because they live in an affluent whiet community, they had access to a better standard of education and better teachers.

Now go to a town like East St Louis, Ill. 95% black, with over half the town living below the poverty line. Those kids are never going to be given access to as high a quality education as my hometown. So now you've got two poor kids, the white one from my town, and the black one from East St Louis. The white one had the access and the black one didn't. The white one is in all likelyhood going to have higher test scores, even if the black one did eveything in their power to overcome their obstacles. This is the disparity that affirmative action tries to help alleviate.

Secondly, invoking racism is to assume affirmative action shows malice towards whites. Showing compassion to minorities is not the same as showing malice towards whites. Burning crosses on black peoples' front yards is racism. The holocaust was racism. Underfunding predominately minority publc schools is racism. Giving money to minorities that have overwhelmingly been (and still are, to a degree) the whipping boy of society over the last 300 years is not racism.

I don't want anyone to be ashamed that that they were born white or born into a good family. If anything I want you to be thankful of that. I know I certainly am. But there is definately benefit to looking outside our own life experiences and understanding that a lot of people have it a hell of a lot worse than we ever will.

i already knew Bush was troubled... its nice to see him admit it

You want fair? Guess what, giving someone special priviledges, regarding skin color, does not equate into fair.

Fair has nothing to do with it. Life isn't fair. Being born black or white is completely out of your hands, and yet people are repeatedly punished for it because they happened to be born black. Existence is not equality.

Yeah, in an ideal world we would be having programs that just go to the underprivledged, regardless of color. We have that in FAFSA financial assisstance. Turns out that in the supposedly color-neutral process, the majority of the money was going disproportionately to whites. The system is flawed. Affirmatiev action helps balance out the flaws.

I understand not every black person in America is poor or grew up in the ghetto. And you know why that is? Because affirmative action is WORKING. Look 60 years ago and you'll see the complete opposite. You'll see 95% of blacks in America living in the ghetos. You'll see racism in the real estate industry creating racial steering, urban withdrawl of whites, and the creation of public housing ghettos.

But along with the civil rights movement, we get affirmative action. Black students now have a much better chance of getting a good education. They are able to get good jobs. They are able to support a family in this cycle. But the lingering de facto segregation in America is still cerating a problem with that. Most of the the successful blacks then go to the suburbs, or put their kids in private schools.

Look, I don't want affirmative action around forever. The day it isn't needed anymore will be a great day. But it is still vitaly needed. The education system is America is fucked up and disproportionately supports white students over blacks.

But then we get you guys complaining that boo hoo, it discriminates against you. Did you ever once stop and think about how many things you have had access to that discriminate against blacks in the education system? Like how most states allocate education spending on the "successful" school districts first and the "failing" schools last? Like how you had access to qualified teachers that liked their job and actually knew the subject they were teaching? Like how school districts are supported by property taxes, where rich (white) districts are able to generate more revenue than poor (black) districts? Like how you actually felt SAFE going to school?

You have all recieved things that kids growing up in some of the pooreset black school districts can only dream of. I'm sorry you didn't get to apply for a scholarship because you're white. But you got to go to schools that were able to teach you at the appropriate grade level, develop your mind, and make it easy for you to get in college in the first place. You've already got your "scholarship" in that, purely by being born white.

And just in case people wonder why I give a damn about this, it is because this is one of the primary focuses of my college studies. I've read thousands of books and articles on the subject of racism in America's school system. If you want to have a debate about this, you're gonna need to bring something better than adolescent whining. And in case you want to read a really good introductory book on the subject, I recommend Savage Inequalities by Johnothan Kozol.

I hate to break it to you, but affirmative action is neccessary in America. While we've done a really good job at getting rid of legalized segregation, we still have very blatant de facto racial discrimination in America. Go to communities like East St Louis or the south side of Chicago. You've got schools that are 95% black, falling apart, and worse than what oyu would see in third world countries. There are very strong, very REAL ties between race, income, and opportunity in America. It is really easy to grow up white in the suburbs and complain that just once in our lives somebody else gets a better deal than us.

Suck it up you whiney pricks. Try growing up in the ghetto. Try having a family of four living off on $20,000 a year. Black and Hispanics in America have so many fucking hurdles they have to go through in life, I am more than willing to have them have better access to scholarships to pay for college. The only way you break the cycle and make affirmative action unneccessary (which I one day hope it is) is to provide better education to everybody throughout their life. Education is power as corny as that sounds. Children raised by parents with college degrees (regardless of race) are more likely to stay in school and go to college themselves. That means less people growing up uneducated, working minimum wage, and living in poverty.

So you can cry all you want about affirmative action being unfair. But let's face it, you have (or have had) access to good education, the money to buiy such fancy things as the computer you're reading this on, and the opportunity to succeed. Try being thankful for what you have and try extending that to people less fortunate. I'm thankful every day for what I have. I volunteer with the Boys and Girls Club to tutor under-privledged kids. I'm applying for Teach For America. I'm actually trying to make a difference instead of complaining from the sidelines. I suggest some of you try working with these issues for a while and then try to come back to me and say affirmative action is unfair. Until then, shut the fuck up unless you want to grow up looking like a racist trust-fund baby.

waaaaaa chips censored me. i should go to irc and bitch and moan and complain about going corporate and the man keeping me down balhdhbsfkbgjsdhksdfh

It made my eye's hurt.

You mean like this?

oh come on, everybody loves homoerotic lotr art.

Some homoerotic LOTR art to celebrate!!!

http://www.squidge.org/~praxisters/pict ... dlelit.jpg

MY EYES MY BEAUTIFUL EYES -chips

me and mike graduated from the school of hard knocks

me and mike graduated from high school together. we win. you lose.

there's no way that is photoshopped. it's just running under the new xbox... magic... tech... gnomes?

you gotta like gearbox, they gave DaveJ food poisoning.

DC 8========D CS

remember back a few years ago when everyone had jobs, the economy was good, and our educational system wasn't going down the crapper?

and then the whole country got all worried because the president like his cigars with a special flava to them?

what a great reason to put king george and the bumblefuck patrol in charge of our country. glad to see our deficit sky rocketing, jobs markets decimated, dead soldiers piled up, and fox news being treated as a credible news source.

well we could go to the UN, but Bush is in him room pouting about the UN right now for being doody-heads.

well, hl2 wont have cloth. But our game will have lots of flowing capes and swooshing hair and that sort of clothy goodness.

so you mean jiggy breasts?

*cries*

i don't know what you're talking about, I just smuggle crack and meth

yes

your story involves a porn star and no sex. i give it 2 stars out of 5

remember, only dead baby skeletons drink heineken

i kept expecting somebdoy to run in at the last second and beat the shit out of him