Thrik

If you don't consider design a form of art or creative process then I think we just have diametrically opposed views on this. If it were merely a set of rules or a non-creative process then why not just get machines to automate the whole thing? (Actually someone on this forum has done just that, but I'm sure they'd freely admit that the procedural generation is obvious, and a human hand has still guided the way it generates.)

Even programming is often considered a creative process because you have to create solutions to problems by constructing something from nothing. There might be rules and conventions, but innovation and creativity are required. Also, is it the case that you only intend to create white boxes for levels or are you planning on making them aesthetically appealing too? Because you'll have difficulty getting your maps played or jobs if you can't produce sexy-looking material.

I've seen a lot of people flourish in terms of developing skills and careers in the 16 years I've been in this community, and the vast majority did so by simply pumping out map after map. Some maps received lots of feedback, some didn't. But they just kept on creating because they loved doing it for the sake of doing it. By doing this, with time you'll develop the skills and you'll get plenty of feedback on the way — especially once you start creating stuff that actually looks good, which is certainly as important as something that plays well if you want people to give it a go.

Want to know which game to make maps for? One that a lot of people are playing. Once your maps are good enough then people will notice them, play them, and provide feedback on them. You have an excellent community here for that too. If you're not hitting the threshold of quality then you'll just have to make do with what you can get and keep working on it. Feedback is of course important, but you also learn a lot from experimentation. If you can't trust your own judgment then you have a problem. 

Honestly, your last sentence makes me feel like perhaps you're barking up the wrong tree by implying that you wouldn't do level design for pleasure. If it's something you just see as a means to an end or 'a job', maybe you'd be much better off pursuing something you're legitimately passionate about. I'm a big believer in people basing their careers around what they love doing and those who don't usually end up being people I don't want to work with because of their lack of enthusiasm once the grind and frustration that inevitably occur with any job rear their heads. You'll never love your career if you don't love what you do and aren't happy to do it regardless. You know how many game developers deal with bad pay, bad conditions, and bad hours but do it anyway because they love it?

Honestly, just go make something. Virtually anything you do in terms of level design will put you in a better position than you are now, which seems to be no further along than you were three weeks ago, or in 2005. There's no perfect engine or perfect process for this. You just need to devote hours — and a lot of them — to learning this craft. Imagine where you'd be now if you'd persisted with building even one map a year since 2005. 11 maps! A whole portfolio.

Anyway, I'm probably devoting too many words to this seeing as I myself decided to give up level design because even though I love games I started finding the process more grating as detail and complexity moved beyond GoldSrc-era expectations and I was more passionate about another aspect of design. Gotta be honest with yourself right? I should let the real level designers share any more thoughts they may have. I wish you the best of luck.  

Some very good points made on this page about the value of feedback and the impact that it has on motivation/morale. However, I will counter with the point that if you truly enjoy a form of art — which many people would consider level design to be — then it's enjoyable for its own sake.

That is, a passionate painter doesn't really care if anybody looks at their work, they just love painting. A musician doesn't really care if anybody listens to their jams, they just love playing an instrument. You could lock a creative person in a room doing their passion for a year straight completely isolated from the outside world, and they'd still enjoy what they're doing.

The creative process itself is the goal, not having a finished map and being able to say 'I'm a mapper!'. I agree that feedback will definitely help you along, but you know what will help more than 50 pages of feedback? Simply making another map. And then another. And then another. And then another.

Because every single time you map, you're practicing — and that's what develops your skill. Going back to the music analogy, it doesn't really matter if someone playing the piano gets a mountain of feedback and notes from listeners and/or fellow musicians. Sure it might provide some pointers, but more than anything what will develop that pianist's skill is playing and playing and playing that piano for dozens, hundreds, thousands of hours.

In my experience this is what makes the difference between successful people in any creative industry (including my own, UI development) and those who fizzle out after a few knock-backs: having a true zest for the creative process itself, to the point where it doesn't even matter if you never finish anything or get any feedback on it.

Of course, getting stuff finished is a separate topic...

I always find it the most fun to do anything creative if it's in the context of something that I'm passionate about. So while you could probably map for any old game and enjoy it, if you map for a game you enjoy playing — You play games, right? — then you're much more likely to feel invested in it and can even have a great time playing it alongside the people you're making it for. That's the beauty of doing hobby projects, because you don't have to just develop what you're told to.  

At Gamescom:

God almighty.

1 hour ago, (HP) said:

 

HAHAHAHAHA

I do think there's something to be said for the way that Human Revolution essentially sets you up to sympathise with and/or side with a mega corporation and really like its owner and staff even though such an entity is undoubtedly probably not a good thing for the world.

It's interesting that by spending time with the human beings behind such a monolothic and far-reaching corporation, you realise that such organisations are less about being bad/evil and instead just about emotionlessly treating everything as business despite the human cost. In some ways it reminds me of where absolutely superb TV series Mr Robot is going with some of its story.

The black-and-white 'megacorps are bad' approach is definitely old hat and boring, so it's good that the themes are being explored in a more nuanced way. But the Human Revolution ending was admittedly not a good approach, and kind of undermined the whole of the game previously.

Came across this electronica album that's become a nice addition to my evening chill playlist.  Reminds me of Moby at times.

11 hours ago, Skybex said:

Exploration is fine when there is something worth seeing. So far it seems like planets are all the same but a different colour and the animals are random Lego pieces put together by a child.

http://imgur.com/Mfrz3Uk

 

HAHAHA

This game is absolutely god damned spendid. I'm glad that I chose to take it slowly and savour it an hour or two at a time, which I've been doing since it came out. It feels more epic to me than just burning through it in a few days.

I've also been really enjoying taking my time going through the environments and capturing nice screenshots using the photo feature. Like in real life, it can be a really good way of appreciating what's there by thinking about what'd capture the essence of the scene best in pictorial form.

The action is just total crazy awesomeness too, but I love that this game has more quiet moments inbetween to break things up. It feels like the game has more exploration and puzzles than its predecessors. I also really like the pirate lore story, being a fan of all things pirates.  

Here are some of my 'photos'.  

Ah man, why is this game coming out now with Deus Ex: Mankind Divided just a few weeks ago and me still getting through Uncharted 4?

There are some aspects of it that I'm unsure about such as the multiplayer being less extensive than I thought and I also worry that the depth of the gameplay and therefore appeal will be quite limited once the initial wow factor wears off. Still, it seems so ambitious and masterfully put together that it'll probably end up being one of those 'must experience it at least once if you consider yourself passionate about the art of gaming' kinds of games such as Journey.

I suspect that having children or someone else to enjoy them might re-ignite that Nintendo magic. I went for ages without really watching any Disney/Pixar films, but when I was involved with someone we for some reason ended up watching loads of them because we rediscovered the joy of watching such great films with someone else. Same goes for James Bond — I had little interest in watching all the old ones again until the prospect of experiencing them with someone else came along. And then when I think to my fondest memories of playing games, watching films, etc they often involve someone else being there. I guess we're truly social creatures.

Of course, the difference with Nintendo is that its experiences are interactive. I hadn't touched my Wii U for ages, but recently I was playing Mario Kart and Super Mario Bros with someone else and it's absolutely excellent, completely reminded me why I love Nintendo. The great thing about them is that with most titles they bundle in really, really good multiplayer that isn't just an afterthought or separate entity, but instead feels like an extension of the core experience. You can be happily playing Super Mario 3D World by yourself, then boom someone can press 'A' when the next level begins and they're right in there with you creating all kinds of zany complications.

Basically, get Mario Kart, Donkey Kong Country, and Mario Bros/World on the go when your daughter is old enough and have an excellent time.  

On 7/26/2016 at 7:58 PM, Pampers said:

prepare for the same set of titles once again

And yet there's more innovation and joy to be found between two Mario or Zelda games than in 10 Call of Duty or Assassin's Creed games. If you don't have any love for Nintendo's first-party IP then it's probably a bit like repeatedly going to Disneyland and not liking Disney movies — but no matter which way you look at it they do amazing things with gameplay concepts. Unique and wonderful experiences are what keep Nintendo afloat despite (in my opinion quite disappointing) hardware specifications.

There does seem to be a perceptible escalation week by week doesn't there? Of violent shootings and such. I wonder if it is actually getting worse or if it's just the news reporting relatively common incidents more — kind of like how it seemed there were suddenly lots of aircraft incidents in the last two years but it was really just existing levels being reported more often. After all, we know people are shooting and stabbing people all the time anyway. Statistics show this.

On 7/22/2016 at 5:52 PM, laminutederire said:

Of course, however Russia will try to keep it cool as long as they can, since it's the only sport they'll be playing during the Olympics apparently !

If Nintendo knows it, it's a cheap move which is demeaning the video game industry in the eyes of the rest of the world :/

I don't know, the mobile games industry can't really get any more shitty than it is right now — full of dirty freemium games that I basically never bother downloading because I know 99% of the time they're just a trap to get me to spend money.

Nintendo is only joining an already shitty sector of the industry, although to be fair Pokemon Go is pretty light touch with its money-making features (i.e. you can buy lures and such but it's completely optional). I have no doubt that some extra things will be implemented to increase revenue, however the costs of running the game must be very high due to all the servers required and the game has done great things, so they deserve it IMO.

It's worth noting that Pokemon as a fad isn't a new concept. Don't forget that Pokemon playing cards swept across the world in the 90s/2000s, one of the biggest things around and then it all went away again. It's just the nature of huge phenomena like this — it won't last, so enjoy it while it's hot. Go outside and connect with some like-minded Pokemon trainers.  

That's peculiar. Please let me know if anyone else has experienced this. It's only meant to occur if the website is completely screwed, and I haven't had any downtime alerts.

Out of curiosity, does the beginning of your bookmark begin with https? If so, try changing it to just http. For a while the forums were using the former but some configuration issues were causing problems for some so I had to withdraw it until I can figure out a better implementation.

12 hours ago, laminutederire said:

social effects are only ephemeral, and a chunk of the player base will eventually stop playing because of that :/

Of course. It's the textbook definition of a fad, which I'd imagine Nintendo knows. Presumably they'll be getting as much revenue as they can out of it before it passes by.  

But does it have Psyducks.

I think it's fantastic. Personally I'm not that keen on the game itself — on my iOS device it's laggy, low-res, and it seems like it needs a lot of polish including allowing you to skip the super-long animations — but it achieves its goal, which is to allow you to fulfil that childhood dream of going around the real world catching Pokemon and having adventures. OK, you might get mugged or chased off with knives, but it's all part of the fun!

In my opinion it shows that more than anything else people just want to explore the world and connect with each other, otherwise they'd just be playing the billion Pokemon games already out there. This is great and something developers should take into consideration, rather than churning out yet another shitty mobile game with 'social elements' which actually just means spamming people on Facebook or allowing chat.

Even at work, lots of people who I've never really talked to (it's a big floor) have suddenly been all around talking about the game which then breaks the ice and leads to further conversation and now we talk more. I'd be fascinated to know how many lasting friendships and relationships result from this game, which no matter which way you frame it is a good thing for humanity.

There are a certain few games I always replay every few years or so — just long enough for me to forget a lot of the dialogue/gameplay specifics.

• Monkey Island 1–3
• Grim Fandango
• Super Mario World
• Yoshi's Island
• Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes
• Metal Gear Solid 2–4
• Donkey Kong Country 1–3

A huge part of why I love Nintendo is that their games often let you scratch that nostalgia itch while still experiencing a new game. For example, Super Mario 3D World and Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze are just an absolute god damned joy and will probably join my list of replay titles. Hopefully they'll re-release Super Mario Galaxy in HD too because that is such a nostalgia ride.

I agree, I've seen idiots and very rational, intelligent people alike voting both ways. It's just not as simple as you're an idiot for voting out, even though that wouldn't have been my choice. These are nonetheless some interesting albeit unsurprising observations:

I must say that as someone who comes from a backwater town and who now lives in a multi-cultural city, it's impossible to not draw a link between the casual racism that permeates throughout that town and its huge sway towards voting to leave the EU.

I have no doubt that many of these leave votes were fuelled by xenophobia, racism, and/or frustration at not earning very much, none of which will be helped by leaving the EU. Of course a lot of fine citizens did vote leave for entirely sensible and rational reasons — but those people aren't the ones who tipped the scales.

Essentially, I think that we're leaving for entirely the wrong reasons, but the good news is that voters' motivations and what politicians decide to do with the country upon leaving are two entirely different things. My hope is that we'll be able to arrange a new set-up that retains free movement of workers and access to the common market — which would inevitably involve taking back on various EU laws much as Switzerland does — which even Brexit politicians are now starting to hint may be the case.

The holy grail would be a general election where we can vote in a party with a mandate to scrap Brexit, which I believe would override the referendum in terms of adhering to what the public wants. If Scotland is successful in stalling the referendum as it intends to, this is actually a (remote) possibility.

I really hope that free movement of workers somehow ends up being maintained, which I think is something that Switzerland has negotiated with the EU despite existing outside of it. For me that's one of the saddest parts of this whole thing because being able to easily live around the world without incurring huge expense and/or cost is a wonderful concept. It'd also be an entertaining blow to the segment of 'out' voters who are basically just a bit racist.

The way the zombies practically pour out of things in this game is absolutely excellent haha.

Yeah I do agree with some of what you're saying.

Overlapping functionality and over-complicated functionality do often cause me to just ignore some features, although part of me also likes the sheer novelty of — for example in Metal Gear Solid — being able to use different items such as empty magazines, balloons, making a noise, etc to achieve the same effect of distracting an enemy for a while. There are subtle but meaningful distinctions to how exactly you use these, but they do largely produce the same result.

I think a really important factor is that like you say the player isn't excessively powerful to the point of the game being devoid of challenge. I think that Dishonored did a really good job of keeping the game tricky despite the load of powers at my disposal largely because of the stealth element. Many powers would expose my position, so I had to sparingly use the less conspicuous stuff to creep around. If I was spotted, that's when the big guns would come out. That's actually how I played Deus Ex and Metal Gear Solid too.

I guess that a lot of it comes down to self-impose player discipline. It's my personal experience and observation of others that even though you can just run and gun through games like the aforementioned, it's a much more satisfying and enjoyable experience to use stealth but when shit hits the fan segue into the more action-packed approach rather than just dying/giving up as older stealth games tended to enforce. Uncharted 2–4 actually use this formula to great effect.

I do enjoy seeing games playing around with these questions, along with how to keep games engaging in terms of storyline and progression in a world of increasingly open environments — something that can very easily cause a game to quickly grow boring once the initial rush of exploring the world wears off.

I do like the look of this a lot, but then I loved the original so that's no surprise. I get what you're saying Sentura about the powers but honestly I think you could apply that criticism to virtually any game that provides an open-ended approach to the gameplay. I'd say that it's a fairly necessary side-effect of not designing in a 'rock, paper, scissors' type way where problem A requires weapon/ability B.

Indeed, in most games you just get a big arsenal of weapons and I personally end up using a few favourites most of the time as per my preferred playing style. I found that I did the same thing in Dishonored — rarely using many of the powers — and in similar gameplay types such as Metal Gear Solid 5 and Deus Ex: Human Revolution. For example in MGS5 you have many options for absolutely decimating an area using brute force, but many people will use the various more time-consuming but thrilling stealth options.

Maybe in some ways it's just not your type of game, and you prefer ones with a more controlled approach to the obstacles you encounter where each puzzle has a very specific solution. I saw you say similar stuff about the new Deus Ex too yet both these games' gameplay look superb to me.