de_stupa

[jackophant]

Does anyone know of any "techniques" for brushwork?

 

I've not had a problem carving holes for props in the past, but I'm currently stuck as the Tibetan theme has slight angles on all the buildings which just made me ragequit hammer. I've worked out I need to work with some sort of func_detail facade around the basic brush, but it gets so fiddly and feels so... inadequate. Is there really no easier way?

 

In all honesty, I've rarely got a map this far into development, so it's probably more likely massive gaping holes showing in my detail work experience than anything else!

[El_Exodus]

What kind of angles? Do you have an example of that?

[jackophant]

This sort of thing:

 

 

And, evidence of it used in valve's map ar_monastery:

[Squad]

If you haven't done so already, I suggest you get a close look at how monastery is build. It's the easiest way to get these angles on buildings.

[El_Exodus]

I'd go for the Vertex Tool with these angles. Shouldn't be too hard to manage as i see this. Just select the vertices you want to move in the 3D viewport and drag them to the place you want in the 2D viewports.

Edited December 8, 2014 by El_Exodus

[kaenze]

this is how i do:

1)use vertex tool to manipulate vertices

http://imgur.com/r1wGeWO

http://imgur.com/Harw3Ym

2)use clipping tool to slice brushes, you can change clipp modes by clicking on the Clipping Tool icon, I use when both parts stays white, after sliceing i delete parts that i dont need

http://imgur.com/pfuwCLY

http://imgur.com/akhLi4C

[MaanMan]

You only need to use the world brush and vector tool to build shapes like these. 

1. Build the whole building with 4 brushes

http://imgur.com/FHIEPxp

2. Make the corners into 45 degree angles 

http://imgur.com/sRUHBcu

3. Select the whole building

4. In your y/z graph select the top corners (using the vector tool) and move them towards the center of the building

http://imgur.com/a/VR0zn

5. Do step 4 for the x/z graph

Hope that helps! 

 

Edit; I had a run around your map. There are a few places where it is very maze like. A general rule of thumb is don't have two hallways connect to each other, have them connect into a room. I drew two suggestions on how you could improve the layout.  http://imgur.com/n9Mvtdu

Edited December 8, 2014 by MaanMan

[jackophant]

Thanks for the replies people! I know how to use the vertex tool and carve, but my problem is adjustments.

 

When I have my slanted wall with the hole cut out for the window/door prop, if I want to make a height adjustment to the prop you can't just drag the bottom of the brush up to shrink it as the incline changes and obviously stick out from the wall around it. I would have to recreate that brush just to carve it again.

 

I guess I just need to work out a system of placing all my props, make sure I'm happy and then carve it all up...

 

If you haven't done so already, I suggest you get a close look at how monastery is build. It's the easiest way to get these angles on buildings.

 

I have been over monastery with a fine tooth comb, seeing the final result is one thing, but getting there is my problem.

 

Edit; I had a run around your map. There are a few places where it is very maze like. A general rule of thumb is don't have two hallways connect to each other, have them connect into a room. I drew two suggestions on how you could improve the layout.  http://imgur.com/n9Mvtdu

 

Thanks for the suggestions, but they would create some huge sight lines:

 

Thanks for all the help everyone

[Mvllsk]

You know I like the map a lot but there is one place that really throws me off. The entry towards short A (?) is extremely OP for CTs. They have high ground advantage over a small, closed in choke point and good cover. Here's what I mean:

 

 

 

 

[jackophant]

You know I like the map a lot but there is one place that really throws me off. The entry towards short A (?) is extremely OP for CTs. They have high ground advantage over a small, closed in choke point and good cover. Here's what I mean:

 

Thanks, I'll sort those angles out

 

I'll also move the trees where they don't obscure any sight lines

[Sjonsson]

A lot of stuff happened since I was here last time, nice going!

[jackophant]

Version 9 to drop soon (I reinstalled CSGO + SDK on work laptop so you know it's crunch time!)

 

Things to note ahead of release:

• The "verticality" of the entire map has been reduced. A lot of the ramps (soon to be stairs) were just too tall and aids in reducing the height advantage CTs generally have
• Reworked CT spawn connections to mid and A
• Detailing has started - say hello to some textures!
• Pesky trees have been adjusted to not interfere with gameplay

I'll arrange a map test soooooon

Edited January 7, 2015 by jackophant

[blackdog]

Thanks for the replies people! I know how to use the vertex tool and carve, but my problem is adjustments.

 

When I have my slanted wall with the hole cut out for the window/door prop, if I want to make a height adjustment to the prop you can't just drag the bottom of the brush up to shrink it as the incline changes and obviously stick out from the wall around it. I would have to recreate that brush just to carve it again.

Well that is Source for you... it's fiddly, there's no subtractive brush like in UE that allows you to just drag it around.

Have you considered that you are basically cloning pillars to "carve" the windows? I hope you are not pressing that "carve" button in the editor, the most non-useful tool ever from my experience. Use vertical cuts done with the clipping tool set on the third setting (the one that will leave you with both parts of the brush you are cutting). When you adjust you adjust just one end of the facade, then clone the brush and cut where you need the windows.

And also think that this extreme annoyance is helping you concentrating on the layout without detouring in the art touches

~

I haven't played the map but the suggestion about the rooms seems sound, and you can find different ways to break a linesight: you can lay some crates, pillars around, and more importantly stretch corridors. Just run around de_cache, several big rooms are broken down by crates

[jackophant]

 

Have you considered that you are basically cloning pillars to "carve" the windows? I hope you are not pressing that "carve" button in the editor, the most non-useful tool ever from my experience. Use vertical cuts done with the clipping tool set on the third setting (the one that will leave you with both parts of the brush you are cutting). When you adjust you adjust just one end of the facade, then clone the brush and cut where you need the windows.

And also think that this extreme annoyance is helping you concentrating on the layout without detouring in the art touches

I haven't played the map but the suggestion about the rooms seems sound, and you can find different ways to break a linesight: you can lay some crates, pillars around, and more importantly stretch corridors. Just run around de_cache, several big rooms are broken down by crates

 

 

When I said carve, I meant cut/clip. I can't remember the last time I used the carve tool!

 

I would do the first cut horizontally as it would line up with other windows on the same face otherwise it would create awkward brushes around the doorways below, but I'll give it a shot.

 

Having had a break and coming back to it, I've changed a few game play features now based on feedback. Typically the rooms should be fairly small with very thick walls and low ceilings as per the architecture, so having a large room and sticking boxes in it isn't really keeping to the theme, even though it would be a lot easier. The larger, wooden, multi-story structures are generally "special" and overusing them would be inaccurate.

 

I think I get the idea why valve haven't implemented this theme on a larger scale...

[jackophant]

All the update is in the

 

TL;DR: jackophant has been a silly boy, has procrastinated massively and hasn't actually done much detailing, but has done some nice game play changes to make the map play and look a bit more realistic.

 

Download for maptest 15/01/2015

Edited January 14, 2015 by jackophant